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Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by cosjef, May 6, 2001.
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do search on validation .also do one on lizzardking
let me know if this helps.
What if you send this type of letter out and the CA sends back the second page filled out. But, they do not do it right. I mean they just fill it out in 30 seconds and don't send signature or statements. WHat type of letter do you send then?
Did you send letters to the CRA's and the validation letters to the creditors at the same time?
I already have current disputes (was doing one at a time), but I'm getting rather impatient. I'm nervous about sending in another dispute while one is already on-going. Don't want to raise red flags.
I wonder how effective it would be to hit just the validation letter end for now. What's annoying me is mostly errors, so I'm not afraid to follow up with a suit.
Or even worse, they fill it all out just as you demanded and send it back to you??
Seems to me that in either case the net effect would be that they just handed you your head on a platter.
What would you do for an encore?
From what I have seen so far, nobody ever thought of that horrible possibility or what to do in case it did happen.
Seems to me that in either case the net effect would be that they just handed you your head on a platter.
How so. You can send another validation telling them where they failed to complete the validation per the FDCPA. I can assure you that there will always be something that they didnt do correctly.
That also makes perfect sense. So you send them another copy of the same validation letter and they write back to you and tell you where you can shove your validation letter.
Then what do you do for an encore? Or they get so sick and tired of getting the same thing over and over from you that they simply refuse to accept any more certifieds from you? That has happened in many cases before.
From what I have seen so far, nobody ever thought of that horrible possibility or what to do in case it did happen. [/B][/QUOTE]
That is because in 99% of the cases, it never gets that far.
What stops it?
In the 1% of the cases where you get sued by the collection agency, that was likely going to happen anyway because the amount in question is large enough to make it worthwhile for a lawsuit. [/B][/QUOTE]
OK! So you P*** them off with validation letters to the point that they sue you and get judgement then go for garnishment and next paycheck, you come up short wondering what happened. What do you do then? Cry alot too??
The whole idea of validation letters is pointless and ludicrous if you do not have a well thought out and planned strategy to keep the bad things from happening. You always have to know what is the next step you are going to take and when to take it, and that must go all the way into the courtroom and back out the other side with you coming out the winner, not them. Lacking all those in place, one is setting themselves up for a big loss and it's only going to be a matter of time before it happens.
Lizard, did you hit both the creditors and the CRA's at the same time?
Also, what kind of letter did you follow up with after you did/did not receive a response?
nursie (aka cmckernan)
So....the validation letters didn't initially work? That's what I'm wondering about. Is that when you filed the lawsuits? Then the validation letters were just a technicality in order to have basis for the suits? That makes sense, but again there's at least a month involved... Plus none of the creditors are in my county, so small claims would be out. Shoot.
Actually it couldn't hurt to send them out....because I know they can't be validated. I'm just trying to get the next step ready, since it sounds like these guys give wussy responses back.
Lizard--don't back down.
I used your letter to three different CA's--
One voluntary deletion (from all three bureaus).
One computer generated letter that said essentially nothing.
Waiting on the third.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
The computer-generated nothing letter: they're gonna wish they'd never sent that....
All right, just what would you do in the event that a creditor or collection agency did go to court and seek summary judgement against you?
I think you know full well that it can and has happened so many times that the number is legion.
For the purposes of conversation, let us assume that you sent a validation letter and a few days later, (let us assume 30 days later) you got a summons to court for hearing on motion of summary judgement. What would you do then?
Since so many people simply don't even show up for the hearing, let us assume that someone sent them a validation letter and got notice of summons and did not go to court because they had no ready defense, what would you have them do then?
No, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm just trying to see what you say to do when and if the validation letter is ignored and the creditor or collection agency just goes ahead and takes the person to court.
I think it is not at all unreasonable to think that such might easily happen since past evidence shows that people are taken to court and judgement granted against them all the time. What would you have someone do then?
Bill, on these they would lose, because they're not valid to begin with (ok, most). We're talking a collection not mine, another that was paid before collection activity, and one that is 4 years past SOL. I have other junk to clean up, but these are nagging at me because they shouldn't be there in the first place. I want them gone now, not in 6 months....so I can get to the heart of the matter of my CR's.
It has taken me 6 months to **almost** solve two issues that were errors. I'm sick to death of getting lip service from companies, waiting & waiting, even when I provide them with the proof that I'm right, they're wrong. I'm ready to walk in with guns drawn when I know I'm right.
As for the 'valid' stuff, I may not use this approach. It just doesn't make sense to hit one item per request to CRA, when I can be working 2 angles at once.
I think it's quite acceptable to "hit" as many as you like at one time.
Just because it's my preference to do them one at a time does not mean that it's any kind of iron clad, cast in stone rule. I think each should do whatever they can feel comfortable with.
After all, the credit bureaus are "hit" many times a day with people demanding investigation or disputing a large number of items all at the same time and it works for them.
Aren"t Junum, Lexington and many others proof that such is true???
I rest YOUR case!!! (LOL) Point well taken.
I sent a validation letter to a CA several weeks ago. They were demanding payment for a medical bill that I'm pretty sure I paid over 2 years ago. I just got back a letter from an attorney for the CA, they included some screen shots from the hospital's computer. They attorney's letter stated that his client hasn't violated the law blah blah blah. So now who do I pay? The hospital directly or the CA?
If you are "pretty sure" you paid this account can't you go back to your records and find the bill marked paid and the corresponding check number? Do you keep records of all your payments? For this very reason, I have and always will keep all financial records for 5 years, in the attic boxed by year. It's a small hassle to do and can alleviate some of these problems.
I wouldn't pay until I could be sure in my mind that I wasn't paying the same bill I already paid/ Of course if you don't keep your records then you have no proof to fall back on.
Sorry, but I can't suggest your next move. I haven't dealt with these situations before. I merely wanted to ask about your records and comment on the importance of keeping them.
So many times I see posts about medical bills where the whole situation could have been avoided by keeping good records. The medical industry, in my opinion, has the worst record keeping with inaccurate payment request and documentation. They can screw up a single doctors visit worse than anything I have ever seen. If I didn't keep such meticulous records I would have over paid by thousands of dollars, all because their record keeping sucks. Double billing, insurance claims not filed, etc.
I hope someone can offer some suggestions on your next move.
If you sent a validation letter several weeks ago and then finally got back a reply from the creditor's attorney, you have just proved a point that I have been trying to make on this board for quite some time now, but which has pretty much fallen on deaf ears because others here are seen by some as being more popular or those who advocate validation letters without setting forth the steps that must come after the validation seem to delight in using flames more than anything else to put down those they see as detractors.
So now, because the local flamethrowers did not properly show you how validation letters should be used, you took their advice and now are out on a limb so to speak.
You just sat there and the chickens finally came home to roost on you as should have been expected. Now what to do?
Your options are pretty well shot because of your inaction, so telling you what you should have done is now pointless.
It's what to do now that counts.
As another poster pointed out, if you have the receipts to prove your point, then you have nothing to fear. Just go show the attorney your proof and that should do the trick.
Lacking the proof that you paid, you must now either pay up or be prepared to go to court. Those are about the only two options that I can think of at the moment.
Personally, I'd just go to court and win there one way or the other. But then I'm not you and vice versa, so you have to decide what you think is best for you given whatever resources you currently have at hand, if any.
It don't matter where creditors are,so small claims isn't out!
Alas Judy I do not have those records. I've moved 3 times since then (once was cross-country) and during that time some stuff got lost/tossed. Remember that old saying about moves: "If you haven't opened a box in 3 months after moving, toss it."? Well I think that's what must have happened. I'm getting ready to call the hospital directly and see what the situation is.
Bill, that person is not out on a limb at all. #1) The attorney who contacted her did not properly validate anything. A computer printout screen shot is worthless.
I must basically agree with what you say here, but the attorney has stated that his client has done nothing illegal. He will stand on that statement come H or high water.
IF he intends to go to court then it will be up to her to prove any such statement that they broke the law by not validating the debt. He will present evidence that the debt is valid in court and that evidence will be in the form of some type of contract or document signed by her. That would be all the validation that the court would require in order to grant relief. Her argument that they did not validate would not hold water in court because the proof would have been entered as evidence before the court.
She would lose and judgement would be granted. It's that simple. Of course, the attorney would also most likely back that up with either sworn affidavit or sworn personal testimony of plaintiff.
The basic document in and of itself is not sufficient grounds upon which to grant relief. Here again we go back to Trinsey v Pagliaro for our proof that the bare document is insufficient lacking sworn testimony or sworn affidavit.
So what happens next is up to plaintiff and plaintiff's attorney. Either they decide to go to court or they decide it's not worth the time and trouble.
All that not withstanding, you are quite correct in stating that she should continue to attempt to get rid of the whole thing with the credit bureau(s). That is a whole different ballgame and the one has nothing to do with the other in terms of what she should or should not do.
What do you have to say for or against my position?
We are all here to learn, and I'm not trying to put you or your position down in any way.
#2) Nothing has changed prior to her having sent the validation letter. She has not weakened her position at all be demanding proof. In fact, she has strengthened it because now they are in violation of the FDCPA because they failed to validate the debt.
Thanks for the advice/info!
Amount = $200 and change
PS "her" = "him" )