Please read this letter. Is it ok?

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Gai-jin, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Well-Known Member

    MY RETURN ADDRESS

    COL CO. ADDRESS

    «Date»

    RE: Account #XXXXXXX


    Dear Sir/Madame:

    During a recent review of my credit report, I discovered the above account which is being erroneously reported by your company. I do not believe this information to be accurate. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is being disputed. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

    Be advised that I am not requesting a "verification" that you have my mailing address, I am requesting a "validation;" that is, competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you. This includes a copy of the original signed contract or document which established this debt, and an itemized listing of all purchases, charges, and fees on the account from the date the contract came to be in effect through the present.

    I am concerned you have reported this inaccurate information to the credit bureau's without notifying me of or attempting to collect the debt first. You may wish to consult with a competent legal advisor before your next communication with me.

    Your failure to satisfy this request within the requirements of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be construed as your absolute waiver of any and all claims against me, and your tacit agreement to compensate me for costs and attorney fees.

    Sincerely,

    Gai-jin
     
  2. chrisb

    chrisb Well-Known Member

    Re: Please read this letter. Is it

    Did you never recieve one of those "We now have your debt, pay us now" letters? The next to last paragraph seems to indicate that you feel they've placed the item on your credit report and had not contacted you. I know that is very possible, especially if someone moves around quite a bit.

    I agree with the first part of being vague about the account being reported as inaccurate, instead of letting the CA know what parts of what they are reporting are inaccurate.

    Are you trying to dispute this as inaccurate, or are you trying to imply that the account is not yours? If you go through the hoops, and then get to the point where you end up in court trying to sue the company and are claiming that the account isn't yours, then they can bring this letter up and state that you basically are agreeing in it that it is your account, just that you feel some of the information they are reporting is inaccurate. If you plan on ever using the "Not Mine" defense I would suggest that you re-word the beginning to show that you don't recall having an account with XXXX.

    I don't know about anyone else on here, but since these letters have been floating around for the past 3+ years I get the feeling that the CA's are seeing them so much that they are prepaired for the additional steps and tactics that we will take so their usefullness is diminishing. I have more of a keep it simple attitude. Throwing out the FCRA and FDCPA mumbo jumbo scared some of the CA's back when these letters first came around, but now they know what it means and every time a CA looses a lawsuit they'll be that much more difficult to trip up trying for violations.

    Other than that, thou, the letter seems to have all the aspects that it requires.

    ChrisB
     
  3. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Please read this letter. Is it

    That's correct. Up to this point, I don't believe I have received any communication from this CA or OC. (Other than my original bills from the OC) I do tend to move frequently.

    Interesting question. I do recognize the bill, and STRONGLY dispute the accuracy of the original bill, thus refused to pay it. (This is a cell phone bill) I thought the letter was worded vaguely enough (that the information they report was inaccurate) that it could be read as not being mine altogether, or as not being accurate amoutn etc. Is this not how others read it? I want validation. I know a signed contract for this exists, but I don't know whether they still have it. Does the not mine defense help me in some way? Does the wording of the above letter hurt me?

    gai-jin
     
  4. chrisb

    chrisb Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Please read this letter

    If you start disputing an item as "Inaccurate" you would basically be almost admitting that it is yours, but that it's inaccurate, which would eliminate your ability to "not mine" the account at a later date. However if you "Not Mine" the account from the beginning, they provide you with a signed contract showing that it is yours, then you can come back with "OK, now I remember this account. But that amount doesn't sound kosher, I think that's inaccurate" The ways that the FCRA and FDCPA are worded basically the CA is not supposed to report inaccurate information to the CRA. The challenge really comes down to the "What is Validation" post. http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42188 They may have a signed contract from you agreeing to XXX services for YYY dollars with ZZZ penalty or something like that. Is this one of those you cancelled the cellular service before the expiration of your contract period, so they expect you to pay several hundred dollars (sometimes as much as the rest of the contract would be without use)

    The only advantage to using the "Not Mine" strategy is that if they don't come up with a signed contract, they basically have to just stop trying to collect and have their entry removed from your credit report. Now this is just what they are "Supposed" to do, not what will actually happen based on anyone's real world experiences. You can simply say that you don't recall having any dealings with the OC and then if they come up with a contract and you need to respond "Hmm, I thought it was Cellular One that I had Cell Service with back then. Oh well, it was so long ago I couldn't remember.

    Yes, while I agree with the level of ambiguity in the original letter you posted, I tend to think that perhaps a simpler new approach might be advantageous.

    Just a thought.

    ChrisB
     
  5. chrisb

    chrisb Well-Known Member

    My letter

    MY RETURN ADDRESS

    COL CO. ADDRESS

    «Date»

    RE: Account #XXXXXXX
    For $YYYYY


    To Whom it may concern:

    I recently applied for credit and was refused, and when I got my free copy of my credit report I found this above account listed by your company. I do not believe that this listing is correct, as I don't recall having any dealings with your company. I've never recieved anything in the mail from your company trying to collect this debt so finding this notated on my credit report was quite a shock.

    I guess I'm asking you to prove it or remove it, because I don't think this is mine. Please send me a copy of any original contract, and all billing statements to show that it is mine, and how you came up with this odd amount you claim I owe you.

    Since this isn't mine, please have any notation of this removed from all of my credit files.

    Sincerely,

    ME


    I think this approach gets attention, first off because the letter you are looking at has been circulating for at least 3 years, so now most all the CA's see that and probably laugh thinking "Who does this deadbeat debtor think they're fooling, this is the fourth one of these exact letters I've gotten this week" But then also you're hitting them right away with damages "I recently applied for credit and was refused" It doesn't matter if you have 7 bankrupcy notations, 23 charge offs, and 7591 judgements against you, this line is basically letting them know that you feel their line on your credit report cost you the credit you've applied for. This tactic will give one more advantage. This may get them curious, and then they may give you an extra $1,000 violation by non PP pulling your credit report to see what is on there, and non PP is pretty easy to get a judge to go your way on compaired to many of the other things.

    The way I see it, in the violation collection stage of the game, I think it's best to not tip your hand to the CA and let them know that you may be looking out for them to violate. If they think they're dealing with some deadbeat who doesn't know their rights, they may commit some REALLY easy to sue them on violations.

    What does anyone think?

    ChrisB

    Note: Like any letter, it may be very useful, but once it's saturated the CA's it becomes somewhat useless.
     
  6. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    My letter

    Forget that letter .
    Just send this.
    Here is the Validation Letter you want to send by CRRR.
    Don't make any changes on it and don't hand sign it.

    Your Name
    Address
    City State Zip

    Company
    Address
    City State Zip

    Date

    RE: Account #_________/Original Creditorâ??s Name

    Dear Sir/Madame:

    Thank you for your recent inquiry. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is being disputed. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Please complete and return the attached disclosure request form.

    Be advised that I am not requesting a "verification" that you have my mailing address, I am requesting a "validation;" that is, competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you.

    You should also be aware that sending unsubstantiated demands for payment through the United States Mail System might constitute mail fraud under federal and state law. You may wish to consult with a competent legal advisor before your next communication with me.

    Your failure to satisfy this request within the requirements of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be construed as your absolute waiver of any and all claims against me, and your tacit agreement to compensate me for costs and attorney fees.

    Sincerely,


    Your Name don't sign


    - - - Include the following on a separate sheet of paper - - -


    CREDITOR DISCLOSURE STATEMENT



    Name and Address of Collector (assignee): _________________________

    Name and Address of Debtor: ____________________________________

    Account Number(s): ____________________________________________

    What are the terms of assignment for this account? You may attach a facsimile of any records relating to such terms.

    Have any insurance claims been made by any creditor or assignee regarding this account? YES/NO

    Has the purported balanced of this account been used in any tax deduction claim? YES/NO

    Please list the particular products or services sold by the collector to the debtor and the dollar amount of each:


    Upon failure or refusal of collector to validate this collection action, collector agrees to waive all claims against the debtor named herein and pay debtor for all costs and attorney fees involved in defending this collection action.

    ________________________________
    Authorized signature for Collector

    Date_______/_______/_______

    Please return this completed form and attach all assignment or other transfer agreements that would establish your right to collect this debt. Your claim cannot be considered if any portion of this form is not completed and returned with the required documents. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. If you do not respond as required by this law, your claim will not be considered and you may be liable for damages for continued collection efforts.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Send this letter next if you don't get validation in 30 days.

    Estoppel Letter
    DON'T CHANGE
    Send CRRR

    Your Name
    Address
    «City», «State» «Zip»

    Company»
    Address
    «City», «State» «Zip»

    «Date»

    RE: Dispute Letter of <insert date>

    Dear Sir/Madame:

    As I have not heard back from you in over 30 days regarding my notice of dispute dated <insert date>, and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence, Engelhardt v Gravens (Mo) 281 SW 715, 719, I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists.

    In a good faith effort to resolve this matter amicably, I restate my demand for proof of the debt, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature, as well as proof of your authority in this matter. Absent such proof, you must terminate this collection action and correct any erroneous reports of this debt as mine.

    For the record, I state again that as I have no account with you, nor am I your customer, nor have I entered into a contract with you, I must ask for the following information:


    Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter.

    What is your authorization of law for your collection of information?

    What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt?

    Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of ____________________ .

    Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature.


    You have fifteen (15) days from receipt of this notice to respond. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, hand signed, and in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you sent your letter(s) in error, and that this matter is permanently closed.

    Your continued silence is unacceptable. Either provide the proof or correct the record to remove the invalid debt from my credit files with the three primary credit-reporting agencies. You are currently in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Act.

    Failure to respond within 15 days of receipt of this registered letter will result in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $____________ in damages for the following:


    Defamation

    Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud

    Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act

    After obtaining the judgment against your company, I will obtain a Writ of Execution from the Sheriffâ??s office in your county and I will begin the process of attaching property or funds to satisfy the judgment.

    For the purposes of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status.

    I affirm under penalty of perjury under the Laws of the Land for the United States of America, that the foregoing is true and correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief.

    Sincerely,
    Your Name DON'T SIGN
     

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