Yes you are right, Bad things happen to good people...Illness, death of a family memeber, etc. That's not my point. The point is why are people who are perfectly capable of changing their lives around instead opting for Bk? Taking the easy way out instead of viewing it as a challenge and implementing short and long term goals to achieve success in overcoming that obstacle. I'm not being hateful or nasty just honest. In the case of Super Shawn, I resent him "investigating" my history on creditnet and then inaccurately dispensing information that is clearly incorrect.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents.... I filed b/k c-7 4 years ago. I was in much the same situation. I was current on all my bills, went to CCCS and and was advised by them to file b/k. I was also upside down in my car. It was the darkest day of my life. I had also prided myself on my responsibility and honoring my obligations. That being said, I must admit it has not been hell. The process was almost too easy and I did not have a problem re-financing my house (at the going rate) nor aquiring new credit cards. Yes, they are subprime but I must admit that on two of them my rates are better than when I was "prime". (Thanks to advice on this board) It is true that will not get a prime card for 10 years. Some of them will never give you another because you are on their personal blacklist. However...my advice, and what I wish I had done, is to keep one of your prime cards after b/k. They will almost all offer to let you re-affirm. Especially citibank. I really wish I had done that.
My roommate just emailed this to me at work. At least I don't feel quite so bad about declaring bankruptcy. Cynthia ------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States. A statesman, diplomat, architect, author, inventor and farmer. Widely acknowledged as a genius and the smartest of all U.S. presidents. A man who gave vision to this country as one of its founding forefathers and leader of this country. Why do I bring up Mr. Jefferson? Because he was almost constantly in debt. Big debt. Mr. Jefferson filed several bankruptcies in his lifetime; and, his debt was huge in comparison to most individuals' bankruptcies today. The point is, bankruptcy is nothing to be ashamed of. If a person with Mr. Jefferson's credentials, aptitude and intelligence can get himself into situations, repeatedly, that require bankruptcy to solve, then it is certainly no negative reflection on you if you need to. The bankruptcy laws are there for a reason. On the whole, they benefit both the debtors and creditors. It is of course important to be responsible for the debts you incur, but filing a bankruptcy IS an act of responsibility. It puts you in a position to move forward, to become productive once again, provides closure, and pays your creditors from your non-exempt assets (or by other means if the court so approves in a Chapter 13 or 11 context). It is important to seriously explore bankruptcy as an alternative to struggling for years to no avail. There are many factors to consider before filing a bankruptcy, but one of them should not be a guilty conscience.
Re: Preparing for Bankruptcy -- LON I really strike a middle ground between the two camps here: Camp 1: People who declare bankruptcy are almost always irresponsible self-centered individuals who believe they are so special that they don't have to pay back money they borrowed. They are so focused on their own troubles that they would rather exercise a convenient legal loophole with hopes of borrowing money from others yet again in a few years (euphemistically termed "credit rebuilding") than work hard for a decade to pay back those who trusted them with their money in the first place. These unrepentant debtors paint seemingly impossible pictures in order to rationalize their misbehavior. Bankruptcy is a shameful, terrible circumstance. Camp 2: People who declare bankruptcy are almost always innocent victims of tragic circumstance with no other options. They humbly and reluctantly face their creditors and ask forgiveness. However, they should stand proudly and without guilt, because bankruptcy is an honorable option. Several famous people have declared bankruptcy, and since those historical figures lived their storied lives in a manner which benefitted all of us, they are beyond reproach or criticism and serve as an example to us all. Bankruptcy actually benefits everyone -- creditors, debtors, and the greater economy beyond. Bankruptcy is a righteous, estimable, and worthy circumstance. So long as these two camps battle each other with such baloney, reality is obscured. I can tell you that there IS such a thing as "healthy guilt" -- the kind of guilt one feels when one knows that he is choosing an outcome that perhaps benefits oneself primarily at the possible expense of someone else. People who DON'T have a measure of "healthy guilt" are termed sociopaths; those individuals can hurt others repeatedly without even a shred of bad feeling. Here's how I see bankruptcy. I'll stake out that third, more realistic, position that is almost never acknowledged by those arguing this topic: Camp 3 (mine): People who declare bankruptcy come in all shapes and sizes. Some truly find themselves in seemingly impossible situations and must declare bankruptcy in order to maintain a shred of normalcy for themselves or their families. Sure, they could face poverty instead, and perhaps some of these people, although certainly not all, deserve a terrible consequence. Others almost certainly do deserve a second chance. Whatever their circumstance, people who declare bankruptcy understand that they are exercising an option that will legally forgive their debts and that creditors will incur a loss as a result. Responsible individuals who don't suffer from sociopathic personality disorders should (and almost always do) experience guilt as a result. Such guilt is normal and even desirable because it reveals the individual to be someone who does consider the thoughts, feelings, and positions of other people. Those who feel no guilt are more likely to view bankruptcy as an option again in the future because, after all, there is "nothing wrong at all" with the circumstance. For those people, the very word "bankruptcy" allows them to shroud their victimization of creditors with sophisticated legal and financial terminology. Most people who declare bankruptcy, though, are certainly NOT sociopathic. Rather, their personalities mirror the psychological demographics of the general population. They do regret their actions; they do feel guilty; they don't take it lightly; and they learn from their experience. The most highly developed individuals take it even a step farther: They try to identify the mistakes they made far before the bankruptcy in an effort to assume some responsibility for the outcome and to effect improved financial planning going forward. Those people tend to admit that they had a hand in creating their bankrupt position, and they tend never to conduct their financial lives the way they did before. The smartest among them become more concerned about savings than about reestablishing credit and think more about establishing emergency funds and eventually insurance policies for health and home rather than about obtaining more credit cards. This is one of my more serious postings. I hope it's received in the helpful spirit I intended. Doc
Re: Preparing for Bankruptcy -- LON Very well worded, Doc. I think you need to have been on both sides of the field to see the endzone (watched way too much football yesterday). Bankruptcy should only be used as a last resort, but being individuals we sometimes cannot control the events that occur in our lives - death, unemployment, illness, etc. Fortunately, I have never been in this circumstance and hopefully I never will. What I don't like are those that abuse the system. And this includes any system - court, credit, welfare, etc. It is meant for those that have no other options left. Just my .02 (I promise I will shut up now). Dani
Re: SuperDuper SHawn If you are not Canadian then you might want to explain these posts.....or are they 'whole un-truths'? http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=18509#post18509 http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=20743#post20743 Ummm, to say 'fellow Canadians', wouldn't you have to 'be' a Canadian? I am not a self-proclaimed expert on finance. I posted my experiences to help a poster with a question. It is you that rebutted my posts. As far a a 'super duper security expert', well, I never said I was a super duper or expert anything, but that is what I do for a living? It is so funny when people here question the morals and ethics of others for decisions they have to make, yet they debate their point by calling names instead of trying to back it up with facts. If you have something to say, say it. I think everyone would welcome the opinion. Calling names or avoiding the point just makes you look foolish. I simply said that if you are going to accuse me of 'half-truths', I am going to insist you back that up. You have yet to do it. You are giving someone 'advice' on a situation you obviously do not know that much about. My 'little online investigating' was simply defending myself against your hypocrisy. Shawn
I have stated several times that I will back up any statement I have made here. Don't play games. If you want to challenge me on anything I have said, including my employment, say it. Don't hint around, don't call names, just say it. I have not 'ripped' you on anything. I posted my experiences to help a poster with a question/problem. You accused me of being less than truthful. Explain how you can say 'fellow Canadians' and the say you are not Canadian. Then show me where 'I' am not being truthful. Shawn
Again, you are accusing but not showing. Where did I mis-represent you? Did someone else post under your account with your IP address? If so, then all my apologies. I sure can helpo you track them down if you want. If not, then I surely didn't mis-represent anything. I posted a link to what you said. Why you are trying to make this a personal issue I am not sure. I posted my experiences, you accused me of telling 'half-truths'. How you expected me not to defend my character I don't know. This was a very good thread discussing the pro's and con's of BK. Many people were sharing their experiences. that's what a discussion board is all about You are the one calling names. You are the one making empty accusations. I haven't called you anything other than your name. I have not accused you of anything without posting a direct link explaining my statements. I have a life outside this board too...a very nice one that is hardly 'a life worse than I could imagine'. I come here to learn, and if I can help or share in any way I try. Read my posts in this thread- not once did I 'recommend' BK, not once did I say it is a 'good' thing. In fact I said quite the opposite. I did not 'run up my bills' and then file. I had a medical emergency in college that left me hospitalized for over three months. When I finally got out, I had the option of filing a malpractice suit against my doctor or trying to go on with my life. After meeting with the doctor, I decided against filing. He is human, he made a mistake. I tried very hard for a long time to make my situation better. It was not possible, and I almost killed myself trying. I made 'deals' with almost all of the credit card companies I owed money. The deals were for partial payment in exchange for clsoing the account. All but one took my money and then did NOT do the deal. They just used me during their collection efforts, taking advantage of someone who did not know any better. You, or anyone else on this board, can judge me any way you want. You have no idea what I had to go through (or what the rest of my life will be like as the result of my surgeries) and why I made my decision. You can make your honest, fair, points here and we can debate them. Or you can resort to calling names and throwing out empty accusations- but you are only going to show your own ignorance. Shawn
Doc- That is a good post. There are always going to be differences of opinion- you and I have had them here before. I am sure there are many people who have 'run up bills' and then filed BK. I can assure you that these type of people are not 'getting away' with anything. They are only setting themselves up for larger problems. They are not going to 'learn' anything from their situation. Anyone who would do that most likely has other issues and is probably not going to go far anyway. BUT, there are lot's of other 's who file because they have no choice. Medical Conditions, Divorce, Accidents, Disasters, Job Loss, things happen. Sure, you can plan, but only for so much. A couple months worth of expenses in a savings account are only going to go so far. The problem is when people 'judge' others when they have no idea what they are talking about. This board should be used for healthy discussions and debates, not empty accusations and name-calling. No one is going to gain anything from that. I would never go out and give someone psychological advice- and at the same time, someone who has never filed BK shouldn't try and serve as a material witness for the 'hell' it causes. (let alone accuse someone who has of lying) Shawn
Re: Preparing for Bankruptcy -- LON Starting hunting down all my credit card and bank statements for the past two years before I go see a lawyer. Re-reading them was enlightening. $3000 charge in July 2000 to cover the cost of removing my gall bladder $1800 charge in December 2000 for three crowns $2267 charge this past June to cover the cost of someone "kissing" the bumper of my car with their SUV (don't get me started on 19 year olds who drive without a license or insurance) Those were the biggies... Then there were the myriad of little ones...grocery store...doctor visits...new glasses...tune up...new brakes....transmission service. I also saw my mistakes... Dumping $1500+ in repairs on a car that would later die a miserable death on the freeway (Honda still can't explain how a 4 year old car with less than 44,000 miles can break a timing belt and destroy an engine). Taking out a no-interest loan from my previous job in January 2000 to purchase a computer that had to be paid in full when I left in May...cash advance from Visa to the rescue. Buying furniture for a new apartment that I would give up a year later and end up selling the furniture for a pittance. Needless to say, looking at the past was educating. Live and learn.
Re: Superdupershawn Please look at those posts and the dates listed. As of 12/4/2000 I didn't have 123 posts. I just surpassed 123 posts today. I would appreciate it if you would stop your nonsense and posting materials that aren't mine.
Re: Superdupershawn Oh, and why would it matter if I was a Canadian. However, born and raised in the U.S. and a lifelong resident. Alot you know you jerk.
Re: Superdupershawn Sean- Are you saying those posts are NOT yours? Your username, your IP address? The #of posts tag, along with the signature line, are dynamicaly applied based on their current value to each post. Your first post and your last post, no matter when they happened, will show SAME "xxxx posts since day-month-year". You 'did' post them. I have no idea who 'Roni' is. I am Shawn, I have always posted as Shawn. And I stand behind every post I have made here. Am I a jerk? Who knows. I am sure I have been called worse at times. You have been caught in one of your so-called 'half-truths', what I like to call a 'lie'. And you have yet to show me where I have told one myself- even though you accused me of it first. You shouldn't get mad because you were wrong- we all are from time to time. Nobody is going to think less of you for it. BUT, you should take advantage of the opportunity by learning from it. Calling people names and stomping your feet because you didn't get your way is only going to make people think less of you. And worse yet, many people have no respect for liars at all. Now- if this is done, and I hope it is, I'd like an apology for you calling me a liar. I think you've made it quite cear you can't back that accusation up. Shawn
Re: Superdupershawn Yes, not only are those not mine, but it is quite apparent that you are pulling a fast one. I had a corporate computer analyst and attorney review the posts for action. They will be in touch with the proper authorities to handle the situation. It's too bad that your "security expert status" actually will end up biting you in the ass. It's one thing to post, it's a totally different thing to doctor posts. Talk to you in another setting soon... and that is a promise.
Re: Superdupershawn Cool. Can't wait. Email me if you want my phone number to speed up the process- I will be looking forward to this one (although I feel I will be waiting a long time for the call...) Hope you post the results here in the forum for everyone to see! Shawn
Re: Superdupershawn Supershawn....it is out of my hands now. The corporate attorneys are handling it. Maybe you can tell them how you were able to alter posts using my name and login. By the way, being a life long U.S. resident, it certainly will not be difficult to prove intent since all of your posts ranting and raving about Canadians have been captured and will be handled accordingly.
