steven z i'd agree to a certain extent, steven... the class actions *have* had an impact on providian's behavior. and some intense media scrutiny never hurts a just cause. but don't discount the other factors involved in this "new attitude" of theirs. for the moment, the media has moved on. and while these lawsuits may ultimately prove to be very costly, they're likely to drag on for years. but what *are* still sitting there, looking like a herd of elephants in the livingroom are "The Investigations". almost a year after the fact, the SF DA's office is still looking into the things PVN did before it got religion. for some reason, the DA apparently thinks that a half-hearted mea culpa may not be enough, after so many years of screwing those who can least afford to be screwed. i guess they're just funny that way. if you don't live in the sf bay area, you might not know that PVN has repeatedly failed in its attempts to reach a settlement with the DA. on top of that, there's: (1) the very real threat that the DA and the OCC could join forces... (2) the investigation currently underway by the connecticut AG's office... (3) the SEC's interest in the timing of the sale of $14 million in stock by PVN's CEO... a sale which took place several days "after" a meeting between the AG (blumenthal, himself) and PVN's general counsel, but several days "before" the meeting and the investigation were announced in the press... and (4) PVN's annual shareholders' meeting, now less than a month away. add it all together, and what do you have...? lions, and tigers, and bears... oh my. so what's my point...? i have two. the first is unless the top management is ousted, don't be surprised if, when it's all over, providian doesn't come back meaner and uglier than ever before. it's in their blood. but my second point is much more important. the DA in SF got interested because people bitched... and not millions, mind you. in fact, in the beginning, it was probably no more than a few dozen. but the DA's office was tenacious. enter the OCC. this is an agency which has not only turned a deaf ear to consumers for years, but has actually sought to legally restrain other agencies from investigating national banks... part of that tedious turf war thing, ya know...? but when faced with the tenacity of the SF DA, plus the media attention, the OCC had little choice but to get "interested". and then toss the connecticut AG's office into the mix... an agency apparently encouraged by the OCC's new pro-consumer image and their lack of interference with the DA. all of which is to say that what's really keeping PVN on the straight and narrow now is not so much the class actions, or even the media... but the fear of any long term changes that could result from these investigations. so then... the short version of the moral to the story is this: if you're screwed by your card company, complaining here may make you feel better... but complaining to the "powers that be" is not only more likely to result in the desired outcome for you and your immediate problem... but it may ultimately make a much bigger difference in an industry that badly needs tighter regulation. Diogenes... still seeking one honest credit card lender. ps... pvn decided to reserve (set aside) $20 million... not refund it. did anyone here ever receive correspondence from PVN, either telling them that a late charge had been "mistakenly" assessed, or offering to refund it...? oh god... how i hope that someone will knock me off my cynical high horse and tell me "yes". ("someone", that is, other than the providian employees paid to stealth here <g>)
RE: Providian's reformation... My personal feeling is that complaints to the various institutions such as The Better Business Bureau, DA's office, Attorney General, Banking Commissions and the OCC are useless unless the number is high enough (and that means a hell of alot of complaints). As far as Providian is concerned, it was just their 'misfortune' or better yet 'lack of foresight' to choose the most consumer oriented city of a consumer oriented state, lets see the DA's office get involved in say Chicago or Detroit...FAT CHANCE and as for corporate friendly states such as Delaware and Florida you'd stand a better chance electing 'Bobby' mayor of Credinet BBS than getting an investigation started. About the only time the investigating bodies get involved is when a class-action suit shows good signs of success or has already been won, typical politicking with virtually no risk. With the EXCEPTIONS of credit repair (a favorite cause of this establishment) or the investigators favorite whipping boy Collection Agencies, which should surprise no one since these companies are despised by the common person and again entails no risk to the investigating agency and in return offers cheap and easy political favor. I have no doubt that when MBA kicks the living hell out of NCO in court he'll be contacted (if he hasn't been already) by various government bodies looking to make political hay. In conclusion, considering Providian Financial is still the 'darling' of Wall Street, saving massive pressure by the investigating bodies, their is little chance of the current management leaving their lucrative positions. An honest credit card lender in this country, my you are a dreamer. Though you might consider a card offered off a Canadian bank, government restrictions are much tighter there and most of these tactics we are so used to are outlawed outright (no sub-prime market whatsoever). You could try TD (they have a branch in New York) or Royal Bank, they issue a card for Americans (McGill one I think).
RE: Providian's reformation... steven z i don't know about that one. they've lost fully a third of their "pre-scandal" value... they've only cracked $100 per share twice since their behavior became public... they haven't been able to sustain that level for more than five consecutive trading days... and despite obscene 4th quarter profits, they just can't seem to get the analysts back in their corner. let's see what the shareholders' meeting brings. and don't discount the possibility that their negotiated "departure" could be a part of this much sought after settlement. well steven, i guess we disagree on this one, too. and that's okay with me, because very honestly, my purpose out here isn't to debate. but i'd like to add just one more thing... as food for thought. it's true that we (consumers) can't rely on things changing just *because* we make a fuss. but it's pretty much a shoo-in that they won't, if we don't.
RE: This is my recipe for chan "it's true that we (consumers) can't rely on things changing just *because* we make a fuss. but it's pretty much a shoo-in that they won't, if we don't." I am certainly not advocating doing nothing, rather it is my contention and firm belief that most of these credit institutions will attempt to stonewall and intimidate an individual consumer and virtually ignore the governing bodies and regulations and ONLY take a person seriously when a lawsuit is brought forth. Thus for a consumer in the United States to maintain his rights and avoid being ripped off by this haughty, extremely arrogant institution he must sue them and for the abuses to end only a competent class action suit will do, the cowardly and sometimes bribed government bodies' hyenas will be quick to join in with the like-minded ambulance chasing jackals who smell blood and $$.
RE: Providian's reformation... Well John, does that mean if we complain enough and to the rite people, that CCB will be run out of the business. And force you into getting a decent job doing something meaningful instead of sleeping with Rocco and screwing all the little people out here in the real world. Oh I hope so. I know for a fact that CCB has lost alot of good customers because of CCB employees like you.
RE: Providian's reformation... hi, I dont know how old your originial message was but I am so mad I am going to respond. Providian closed my account back in March of 99 after about 7 or 8 years of doing business with then due to a nsf check my 3rd in 8 years with them.(my mistake) I called and tried to resolve and they wouldnt budge. On my next statement I had a total balance of $44.83 which I paid in full and told them it was my last payment. I sent it in 18 days before the due date. Only to learn today that they did not apply the payment until after the due date and charged me $15.00 for late payment of which now they say is $181.57 after telling them that I had documentation to paying the account off, they reversed all charges and are withdrawing the collection. Too late I am try to buy my first home and they have ruined a rating I have tried so hard to maintain. Nice guys huh. Where do I go from here?
RE: Providian's reformation... I did receive a late charge refund as well as the interest that was associated with it.
