I sure as hell hope you aren't lumping me in a category Butch. If you honestly believe in opinion polls as actually predictors of how people think, I guess I can't agree with your thinking. We should just blow up the rest of the world and ask questions later. Hey, I have one for you. You are republican, right? (Or vote that way, or feel inclined in that direction, or whatever.) You said above that "the general population has more wisdom..." By this standard, shouldn't Gore be our president? Before you jump on me, I didn't vote for either of those guys, and am NOT a democrat or democratic leaning. Just pointing out the flaw in your logic. I should NEVER have even opined in this thread. It's very obvious that reason leaves off right where politics begins...
Would love to visit Canada and admire a lot about their government. Anyone ever compare their murder rate per capita to ours in the U.S. The numbers will surprise you. Regarding our current administration and the economy . . . In this age, I think we should evaluate the executive skill of who is in charge and their willingness for full disclosure. Not their personality or ability to B.S. and say what you want to hear. Also what are the strengths of their cabinet members. (By the way, can Colin Powell ever just answer a simple question directly? Does he talk in army-speak or something?) With the current frightening state of the economy, I am becoming more savvy on investment terminology and methods. Also, I scan this forum everyday to try to learn as much as I can.
How best to respond to this? (Probably by ignoring it.) Greg might reply with "Do you still beat your dog?" ) I don't recall when the United States of America was appointed world peace-keeper. I also don't see how you can pick and choose which country that is killing people you stop, and which you ignore. Speaking specifically about Hitler and that whole mess, I am sure I don't have enough factual data to argue against your statement. I am also pretty sure you don't have enough data to support it. All too often we believe whatever popular press has to say without ever looking deeper. We are all hearded in one direction and thinking differently or questioning the norm is just not done. Damnit, I replied again! When will I learn?
Butch, I have to disagree with you. The economy downturn started in the first quarter on 2000, with all the tech stocks sinking. And there were signs of this coming in th winter of 1999. As we know now the economy was inflated by almost 30% by the the previous treasury dept. How can people think that this economy can be linked to Bush? Do they really think that the Bush Adminsitration can influence an economy in less the 24 months? The American people make the economy go and Goverment needs to get out of the way (i.e. tax cuts and incentives). Anyone ever here of something called a business cycle? The economy is still growing just not at the inflated rate of the 90's. People need to realize that the stock market is not the economy. It is only a part of it. This notion that Enron had influence on the Bush Administration is comical. The previous president is the one who helped with an Indian (in India) power plant to built after he receieved a large campaign contribution from Enron. There is no evidence that Enron has had any influence on the Bush Administration. This dock workers dispute is another funny situation. These workers average over $70,000 a year. Now they are striking because new technology that will benefit the general public is being introduced. These unions have gained way toomuch power. Why should the consumer suffer because of their greed? Isn't it strange that they would do this right before an election? Who do the unions support? Who benefits from a slow economy? Is it the Republicans? Or Bush? It amazes me that people would sit back and wait for Hussein to make a move. In fact if anyone thinks that he has no hand in any of the recent terror activities from Palestine to 9/11 you are fooling yourself. There is plenty of evidence that he has trained and funded (60 Minutes) Palestinian Homocide Bombers and has harbored Al-Qaeda terrorists. He even plotted the kill a former US president. This man hates everything about the West, except the money he gets from his oil. The very people who would let him be are the same people he would like to destroy. This is also a so-leader that executed the previous regime to gain power. He has killed more Muslims then anyone else in the last 100 years. So you still think we should just let him be?
Yeah, freighters stuck there because the DNC and the union are hand in glove in trying to kill the economy to give democrats a leg up in the November elections....thank Bubba Clinton and Terry McAuliffe for this little ploy..anything to possibly bring down President Bush's poll numbers and hang on to the senate. And don't accuse me of joining the tinfoil hat brigade. After what the democrats have done in NJ, not to mention Gore trying to steal the election in FLA, nothing is beyond them. BTW, admin. I think this thread should be moved to the general interest forum.
Nowadays it's easy: Country with oil = EVIL EVIL EVIL! MUST STOP NOW! Country without oil = Rwanda who? (And before somebody points it out, yes, I realize that the genocide of ~800k Tutsis occurred under Clinton's watch.) wajaba
As a veteran of the USAF *and* and ex-Texan (I miss Texas sooooo!), I admit to wanting to slap a few folks silly over this whole thing! (#1) Here in the US we have freedoms like no other country. (#2) We have far more respect for women! (Yeah, try to kill a woman for not wearing her seraq or for leaving the house without a male family member... IRAQies can GTH!) (#3) After we were bombed the liberals and liberal media DEMANDED explanations for why we didn't stop this from happening!!!????!!! ----> Face it folks, it has always been the US military's policy NEVER to have a preemptive strike. To have stopped the terrorists we would have had to have things in place that the liberals have been fighting for years... A MILITARY - not this hollowed out version of one. PREEMPTIVE STRIKES - (that is stopping them before they attack us.) A CIA - that was allowed not only to gather intelligence but was supported in covert ops to kill these terrorists before they killed us. MONEY - to develop and use the technology to have gathered the intelligence to have known this was going to happen.... on and on and on. YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS! If you stand with the way the military has always been (non-pre-emptive), then expect that the terrorists will break through and we will have occasional 9-11 attacks. Unless you have a better way to stop the terrorists and run for President, then I suggest you allow those who are informed and empowered by the people to make the decisions. *******' With respect to Enron et. al.; George Bush is not to blame. Strange thing, I would hold the greedy CEOs responsible for their own behavior! No president ditting now or before ever suggested that these greedy and selfish individuals gut their own companies and then send the country's economy into a tail spin. Bush could not have stopped it. It was well underway by the time he was elected. It is far past time that we begin to preach personal responsibility and stop blaming others for ills they were not responsible for. ---- | | ---> climbing off soap box, now.
SCMomof5, Thank you for your service in the USAF. And to anyone who has served in the Military, Police and Fire Depts. (anyone even Democrats) thanks from me and my family for the sacrifice you have made to give us the freedoms we are priviledged to have here is the US. Thank you very much!
Being an American who lived in Canada for 10 years, I would like to say a few things: it is a fallacy to believe that the Queen serves a position in Canada much different than Santa Claus does here. The Queen is a sweet smelling reminder that is dusted off and paraded around for the Canadians to remember why a mass majority of them left the colonies to stay loyal during the revolution. I can remember living in Canada where 'free' health care was standing in line for a much needed surgery, or vacation had to be planned around gas prices, or income taxes amounted to nearly 1/3 of your pay, not to mention that your $300k 2 bedroom house was 6 feet away from your neighbor in the burbs even though Canada is the 2nd largest country in the world. Americans were viewed in Canada as spoiled brats who, like a bully, would enter the playground and get thier way, or at least complain loudly until they did. It's important to remember, everyone on this board is so very lucky to live in the nation we do, no matter what the economy or threat of war. Nearly 1/3 of this world's population is more concerned about where thier next meal is coming or if they will have clothes to wear next winter. As for me, I believe Bush is the most results-oriented president we've had in a long time. Don't forget the economy started to tank when Clinton was in office. It's obvious it has taken so long to gain support for invading Iraq because, unlike the past, most of the American public is so ignorant about what the true issues are that they have to be engaged via the media before they even figure out where Iraq is, let alone understand the threat. Like it or not, America is the world's watchdog and moneybank. There is a price of living in this country, the responsibility falls squarely on America's shoulders to militarily and economically lead policing and rebuilding efforts the world over. For every loud-mouthed country that opposes invading Iraq (France, Russia) there are 10 that support it, including some Arab countries. The day of reactive, negotiate-first government ended with the invasion of Pearl Harbor. God Bless America. No matter what the outcome, it's my home and I'm thankful to live here.
Butch, I respect your credit wisdom. You don't know mutch about me, and you have taken some HUGE leaps in trying to explain what I have said. If you feel the need to explain the Electoral College system again, by all means do. It's a wonderful idea and people should fully understand how it works. You needn't explain it again for my benifit though. Far too many people think we live in a democracy. Hell, even our elected officials espouse the virtues of democracy, both to us and to those abroad. We are slipping closer and closer to democracy though. I think this last election could very well have pushed us that way, if the attention span of the average person were longer. (If that were the case though, much would be different, I suspect!) Butch, I did vote. You won't be impressed by who I voted for though, so I may as well keep it to myself.
"Butch, I did vote. You won't be impressed by who I voted for though, so I may as well keep it to myself." jambe, This may be the problem. Why should you care who is impressed with who you voted for? You should be the only you should be impressed by who you voted for. If you care what someone think about the person you voted for, maybe deep down inside you feel you did not vote for the right person.
Huh? Where did I say I wasn't impressed with the person I voted for? Who said I gave a rat's ass about what anyone else thinks about who I voted for? I didn't give it for Butch's benifit, because I am very sure he doesn't care. He probably feels that I made the wrong choice, since it wasn't the person he voted for. (Although, admittedly, that's me jumping to conclusions.) Mostly though, I was trying to not add any more fuel to the fire. I definately voted for the right person. Everything my candidate has written or said, that I have seen, makes so much sense. In fact, there is very little I haven't 100% agreed with. My vote was for Harry Browne. Even though his chances of winning weren't, it was nice to be able to cast a vote instead of adding to the 'undervotes' or just staying home. It felt good, too. Something that is probably rare when voting, at least for me.
I have to agree with dogman though I am uncomfortable posting my political opinions on this board. However, this is important enough to comment on. I do not believe in War for oil or War to make daddy's defense companies richer (i.e. The Carlyle Group) take a look at their list of executives and who do you think will be getting all the defense contracts. Look let's face it. This War is about oil. Do you think there is any coincidence that Bush is from oil money, Cheney ran Haliburton and is also oil affiliated, Condoleeza Rice from Chevron again oil related Daddy Bush sits on Carlyle Group board defense related. I see lots of self interest here. Sorry those are just the facts. If you doubt it a little research will clear it right up for you. We have enough problems right here at home to deal with instead of fighting a sham war to make the wallets of a select few fatter. Also no coincidence that Son Bush wants to try his damnest while he is in office to finish what Daddy started (get that oil ole boy!) The fact is we will always have differences of opinions with our elected officials, however because we live in a democracy and supposedly have the freedom to elect our president (though Bush was selected by the Supreme court not elected, that in itself unconstitutional) we live with it when they begin to act up. I think we draw the line and speak loudly on election day however, when our elected officials begin to work solely in their own best interests as opposed to those of the nation as a whole. The nation will speak loudly in the next presidential election to make sure their is no room for doubt (or recount) regarding whom we want to lead our nation. At least I will!
I am sorry Jambe but we do not need that lecture after all. I do understand the purpose of the Electoral College, however, we as a nation bill ourselves as a democracy and espouse this propaganda the world over and I was speaking from that perspective. In fact the Electoral College is antiquated and an insult to the American people. But that's just my opinion. I think I was correct in the beginning. THis is clearly not a conversation to be had on this board. We will all have differing opinions and I respect them all I just don't agree with all of them. That's all from me.
