"In fact the Electoral College is antiquated and an insult to the American people. But that's just my opinion."-robin Without the Electoral College we would have mob rule. That is why we are a Representative Republic. A true democracy would be chaotic, we would have situations like the New Jersey Senate Race and Florida 2000 at each election. "THis is clearly not a conversation to be had on this board. We will all have differing opinions and I respect them all I just don't agree with all of them. That's all from me."-robin This is exactly where this conversation belongs. Differing opinions are what is encourage in a free society. Obviously you can't find differing opinions and free conversation in Iraq or the Democratic Party.
Although I have some reservations with respect to underlying motives, I must say it's time for SADAAM TO GO AWAY. The UN has been playing footsie with IRAQ for tooooooo loooooong, they basically just walked away 4 years a go, and gave him CARTE BLANCHE to do as he pleased. SADAAM is EVIL, I do not doubt for 1 second, that if he could destroy th USA, that he would. I believe he is engaged in terrorist activities against the Civilized world in one way, shape or form. I believe that there is probably much CLASSIFIED info., with respect to IRAQ, that just can not be released at the present time. Although this concept of preemption, raises some serious issues, I believe it's justified in this case. He hasn't been stock piling and testing horrendous weapons for nothing, he has all kinds of canisters that are to be used for ??????????? Just imagine for a moment that one of those canisters was filled with some horrific chemical or bio. weapon and disbursed among the general population of a large American City; the result would be beyond comprehension. We must act to SAVE the civilized world, as we have become one of the worlds "policemen", like it, or not.
IslandBoy please tell me you are not ignorant enough to compare the Democratic Party with Iraq? Further what's with the Democrat Bashing? Who the hell cares if you are a democrat, republican or independent? I sure don't. I speak for myself, not my party and I vote my conscience not the party line. You are wrong again IslandBoy this is not where this conversation belongs, this is a CREDIT forum not a political opinion board and yes the Electoral College is an insult to the American people. I for one am intelligent enough to decide who I want in a position of leadership in the country I live in perhaps you are not as confident of your intellect so you feel more comfotable letting someone decide for you.
robin, Why is that people with your mind set always have to go with the personal attacks? The only reason Iraq and the Democratic Party were in the same sentence is because they both discourage differing opinions. One will kill you for it and the other will attack you personally for it. That is not "Bashing" it is discussing the facts. Also why do you want to control where debate takes place? Although this is a credit forum, dogman has certainly introduced a topic we all are thinking about. It is amazing that the people who say they are for freedom speech want to control where that speech takes place.
Robin, I think maybe you do need that lecture, if you really think it's just about being intelligent enough, etc. My take is that we were intelligent enough back then to know a pure democracy would fail. You can look at our current state of affairs and see that even our representative republic had flaws that have been systematically undermined.
I. for one, think good debate, on any subject, is just that, good. It probably belongs in the other board here, but that's for pbm to decide. I would say though, that the personal attacks don't do ANYTHING for your arguement, except maybe to weaken it. I think I have even made the mistake of saying things in this thread that could be taken as a direct insult. That was NOT my intention. Really though folks, why is there such strong emotion over politics? What happened to reason? ...and again I speak where I should remain quiet...
Islandboy - extremely well written. I am a marketing guy - I need a powerpoint slide from BUSH with er er simple bulletpoints as to why we have an immediate deadline to DECIDE THIS. This is still "WAG THE DOG" in high gear. We have different opinions, I think SEN John McDermott's questioning is practical. If I have proof, I will embrace. and on CNN now - it is heating up. DM
I am sorry Jambe but I have no idea where you are going with this. I never said my reasons for thinking the electoral college is an insult to the American people is limited to intelligence, that is a part of my reasoning but not the whole picture? Second, what personal attacks are you referring to. Is it the comparison of democrats to Iraq or is it the hope that someone would not be ignorant enough to attempt to compare the two. Please clarify. Also, to set the record straight this is the reason I think (my opinion) that this discussion would be best suited to another board. It is distracting from the main content of the board, that is to discuss matters related to Credit.
Give me a break Robin. Unfortunately, for the first time, we are faced with a list of ingredients, the combination of which have horrifying implications. Bullet point #1: Is there anyone who thinks Saddam is not an insane madman? Bullet point #2: Now comes 2002 and technological developments in the areas of weapons of mass destruction, Biological and Chemical weaponry, communications and the ability to deliver those weapons. Bullet point #3: Then comes the fact that Iraq is an absolute dictatorship. All the power in that country is encompassed in ONE guy, a madman at that. He requires no permission to re-attack Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and all his neighbors and confiscating their oil. Whether you like it or not Oil makes the industrialized world go round. Now combine these 3 primary factors into one situation and you have a recipe for disaster. (Which BTW, is the reason why it's not necessary to "preemptively" attack other countries) It is precisely this unfortunate combination of components which makes action immediately necessary. Are we to agree that your incessant rambling about Oil and Haliburton outweigh what the consequences might be if we do as you propose, nothing? What do you whine about next, hanging chads? LOL PLEASE tune into CSpan and LISTEN very carefully.
Robin - fantastic! I keep not trying to respond - but all of us are right. BUT, unfortunately, I am afraid we are going to war quickly. HMM - he just invoked the TAFT-Hartley ACT. Will the PIER srike end? I do not even know if this is good. Robin - thanks. Bob - DM
I think I have to agree with what someone posted earlier. I definately have a different perspective of some of you than I had prior to this discussion and this is exactly why I felt this was the wrong forum for this debate. I however refuse to sink to the level of debate for debate's sake. Let's face it nothing is going to be accomplished through a Creditnet "debate" on politics. However I can agree to disagree and leave it at that. Butch, Jambe, Island Boy, I respect your opinions I simply disagree with them. If it makes you feel better to drone on about a subject that we will never agree on then be my guest. I am quite bored at the moment and find some of the comments quite entertaining. So please do continue.
THX w - Butch - I respect your posts as well. Let's cut to the chase - we are on the brink of WORLD WAR 3. dangerous times friends - ominus times. yup - dangerous times. Bob DM
Not at all, (at least I hope not). Most likely as soon as the first shots are fired the iraqy people will rise up to aid in their own liberation. They DISPISE Saddam and can't wait to get out from under him. MANY other countries will join the leader, us. Those who lack the testicular fortitude to lead are very good at following. Don't worry so much Dogman, this is gonna work out ok. And there will be a whole new respect for international law. PS. As well, those are incapable of debating with rational, carefully thought out facts will abruptly end their part in the conversation.
