Here's a question...or a request for your opinion.... Well, first of all, Hello again! I have been away for a while...things got pretty busy and I had gotten my credit to a point I was happy with, so I took some time 'off'. Things are going well, thanks for 'asking'. Ok, so, out of the blue, I get a letter. It's from an 'Attorney' (Collection Agent, small local attorney) 'representing' a Chiropractor I have not been to in quite some time. The amount stated was $650.00. I honestly thought is was a mistake as I always paid the Chiropractor per visit and it was never more than $30 a visit. That $650.00 amount would have been more than all my visits put together. So, I called the Chirporactors office. Although I was not 'friends' with the Chiropractor, we never had any bad terms and things were always very friendly. I expected him to get on the phone and laugh with me at the mistake. However, he would not even get on the phone. An office assistant took the call and would not transfer me to him. She would only take a message. I left one. Just to 'call', no details on the bill. The office called me back approximately 1.5 hours later. It was the same assistant. She asked if I was callign about the letter from the lawyer. I said yes. I could here the Chiropracter 'coaching' her in the background, whispering. I asked what the bill was for. She said she did not know , I would have to deal with their attorney. I stated that I would not deal with a collection agency, I wanted to deal with them and wanted to know what the bill was for. She stated 'two visits'. I askedd how 2 visits at 30.00 a piece could be 650.00 dollars, she said 'ok', maybe it was 3 or 4. The more I asked the more she stuttered and said she had no information and to deal with the attorney. So I did- I sent him an e-stoppel letter and added a request for validation from his 'client', the Chiropractor. I gave 30 days and sent it CRR. I recieved no reply. After 35 days I sent a second letter, CRR, to both the 'Attorney' and the Chirpractor stating that the 30 days had passed and thatI had recieved nothing, a violation. I offered a 15 day 'GoodWill' period and after that I would consider the matter closed. Well, yesterday, day 13 of the 15 day period, I recieve a letter from the Chiropractor. It was standard mail, no signature confirmation, not certified, nothing- just two stamps. Inside the envelope was a 'listing' if two visits totalling 665.00 dollars, mainly weird fees I have never heard of, a copy of the original lawyers letter, a copy of the letter I sent them, and a copy of a doctors 'chart' of some kind with some illegible writing and no dates- it could have been made any time (any of this could have). One of the two dates listed occured during a vacation of mine- I was not even in the state! Ok, so how would you proceed? If I owe it I will pay it, no question there. but I honestly don't believe I do. This sounds like a bad attempt to extort money from old customers by using scare tactics and a lawyer. Again, these fees are well above and beyond any visit charge I ever had. I went to this guy maybe 15 times..I have receipts for almost every visit- each one exactly 30 dollars. Your opinion is greatly appreciated!!!! Thanks, Shawn
Shawn, Can you prove you were not in the state at the time of your vacation? CC receipts or anything that would demonstrate you were outta town? ???
Hi- Yes, that's not a problem. I have Amex bills showing plane ticket purchase... Plus about 30 witnesses (he is stating that one date of treatment is the day before my Birthday- I was home with my family, 800 miles from his office). This guys is kind of shady...always looking for a new way to 'get rich quick'. I remember some pretty sick stories he used to tell me when I was in there...one of the reasons I stopped going to him. I am considering offering settlement of 1/2, sending a check marked 'paid in full' in the memo attached to a letter stating that I dispute the charges but offer settlement of half just to put it behind us. Any thoughts? Shawn
You shouldn't pay this guy! And just a thought. You're probably not the only one who is getting these bogus bills. I would consider filing a complaint with the State Bar Association against the attorney, if you believe that he is a part of the scam. Filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission against both the attorney and the Chiropractor. Filing a complaint with the Attorney General's Office. and MOST IMPORTANTLY, filing a complaint with the Association that liscences this Chiropractor. This guy needs to be shut down. Can you imagine this guy doing this to your grandma? What an PR$$K!!!!
You shouldn't pay this guy! And just a thought. You're probably not the only one who is getting these bogus bills. I would consider filing a complaint with the State Bar Association against the attorney, if you believe that he is a part of the scam. Filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission against both the attorney and the Chiropractor. Filing a complaint with the Attorney General's Office. and MOST IMPORTANTLY, filing a complaint with the Association that liscences this Chiropractor. This guy needs to be shut down. Can you imagine this guy doing this to your grandma? What an PR$$K!!!! Oh yeah, where I live, we have something called "Turn To Two". It is the local news station and they assist people when they are scammed. They put it on TV and everything. What a wicked idea!
Shawn sounds to me like the guy is trying to write this off as a bad debt on his taxes and he has to show some form of trying to collect this ........the guy is a scum bag and he figured u would not dispute it and he may not have even tried to collect just show where he tried to does that make it right NO but I have seen this tried by other self-employed people. I would send validation letter and nail him on violations
I do not normally like to disagree with other posters here, BUT, the idea of paying, and getting your payment in writing with a settlement letter is a VERY BAD IDEA First of all, you are laying yourself open to further problems by "settling" an account that is fraudulent. Second, you have NO control over what he does with the presumed "unpaid" balance. You cannot prevent him from SELLING this fraudulent balance to a 3rd party as an accounts receivable, It is called "restraint of trade" and any "agreement" barring the sale is null and void and unenforceable. Your best bet is to dispute the charge, file a complaint wih ALL authorities and the FTC and register a complaint with the State licensing division that regulates his chiropractor license.
Re: Re: Question-'Medical' Validation... Butch- I agree with you a zillion %, if you can throw a few $$ at a problem and make it go away, that is certainly the best thing to do.( even if you don't owe the $$ ). However, this situation is VERY different. It REEKS of something waaayy off base. If it were a demand for $60. and the poster thought he might or might not owe it, I would agree, pay it and be done. BUT- this is a completely different scene, here, out of the blue, without any prior billing, and a LONG time after any POSSIBLE reason for any bill, a collection for several hundreds of $$ is turned over to a lawyer for collection. It is not a question of "settling" for $60. it is a question of being part of a fraudulent extortion scheme. AND, believe me, if you think it would HELP him to pay it, and keep him out of Court, wait until he is called up as a witness for whatever criminal or civil action ensues from the OTHER victims reporting this.
Re: Re: Question-'Medical' Validation... Ok ... well maybe just settling and getting this behind him, and THEN following Sirrowan's advice and file formal complaints to everyone on the planet, (including his Mom) might be a good bet. Shawn, you do already have a legal argument here. Just to clarify you did say in one breathe that there were no dates in their "val docs", but then you said one of the dates was when you were on vacation. Do you have the vacation date IN WRITING or not? This is important.
Re: Re: Question-'Medical' Validation... Consider busting him on a HIPPA charge. This is were they disclose to the CA the medical procedure. It's a major violation of privacy and medical ethics. There was an article in my local paper how many DR. offices are being remodeled so that patients checking in can't see the files of other patients.
Re: Re: Question-'Medical' Validation... Lot's of interesting points here...thanks a bunch! This is a hard one for me becasue I really don't know (truly) if I owe for one visit or not.....whilke I was definatley out of town for one of the two visits he claims I owe for, I could very well have been there for the other. The problem is - I always paid in full every visit AND the charge was always 30 dollars. I honestly think this guy just farmed out a bunch of stuff to a local lawyer and hoped that it would scare people into paying..that is right up his alley. I guess I don't understand what stage I am at now. After recieving the initial letter from the 'attorney' (CA), I phoned the Chiropractors office about the debt (they claimed to have no info as it was all at the lawyers) and sent the lawyer and e-stoppel/request for validation letter. After 30 days I sent a goodwill/15 day letter to both the Chiro and the lawyer. I have NEVER heard back from the lawyer (most likely due to e-stoppel) and the chiro sent me this joke of a validation packet that was basiucally my letter, the lawyers original letter, and a printout of various 'procedures' that mean absolutely nothing to me (i.e. manipulation of 3rd and 4th vertibrea, ems attending fee, manipulation, records fee, etc). Would this be validation? How does this prove I was there as A- one of the dates I was not even in the same State and B-There is nothing here to show my signature, times, or proof I had any of this done. Plus, like I said before, he always required payment at time of service as my insurance did not cover Chiro and I always paid ($30) during the visit. What should I do now? Pretend I didn't get the letter (it was standard mail, not CRR or anything), respond and say that it is not proper validation? Part of me wants to pay the $$ and be over with it as I had a long road of credit repair and have finally gotten to the point that I am happy..I don't want to go through it again! However, I truly know that these charges are trumped up crap and that this guy is just a sleaze... Before I posted to you guys I was considering sending half (325.00) and offering settlement..now I don't klnow as I don't want to 'give in' to something that is complete and udder bull... It was really weird to get this bill as I have not heard from this guy in over 1.5 years, let alone been to him, and he has never tried to contact me once in the meantime. I truly never recieved any bill from him... I know he knows this and that is why he avoided my phone call. UGH!!!!!!!!!! Thanks again, Shawn
Re: Re: Question-'Medical' Validation... I know how ya feel Shawn. Unfortunately nobody can tell ya what to do. You have a few ideas on how to proceed and we'll help ya whatever you decide. But the hard part is YOU have to decide what you want to do. See, only YOU know this guy and what tactic will work best with him. That's why only you can decide. Think about it and let us know.
