In June, 2001 I noticed an entry on my credit report for a bounced check from a walk in medical facility. I called the facility, and they had no record of me or the check. I did some checking and got the phone number for the CA. They are the second CA to have this, the first one apparently sold it without doing anything about it. I truly dont remember bouncing a check there, but it is a place I have gone to a few times, so its entirely possible. My husband and I were looking at houses at the time, so I figured I needed to pay off the debt so it wasnt showing as unpaid on my report. This was dumb, I know, because they never notified me that they were seeking the debt, or that they had put it on my credit report. Anyhow, the rep said they had contacted me and that I had spoken to them before and promised payment. Again, I dont remember, but I suppose its possible. I later tried to dispute the debt and got a nasty letter from them basically saying, "you knew you owed the debt and you tried to welch on it, so no way are we removing this from your report. Thats what credit reporting is all about" My question, is there anything I can say to them about the fact that they never notified me of this debt? Also, I asked for a copy of the supposed bounced check, which they cant provide. (This is from 1997.) The only thing they sent me was a copy of the front of an old bill, sent to me at an old address. I know this is old, but I would love to get it off Experian, it is one of my few remaining negs. Thanks
Sorry Mary... You know the lesson you've learned now, make CA validate debts, never pay without written guarntees of removal, etc. My opinion is to look for errors in the listing with Experian... wrong dates, incorrect amounts, wrong file numbers, etc.... Every 45 request an investigation on a new basis until it comes off.... You may want to save your best until the holiday season and try to work it then... mid December mailing.
Even if the account is based on a bounced check, which they cannot provide? I dont think they have any paperwork on this, they are the second CA to handle it. They could have notified me, and didnt. I just think that they have to prove the debt to keep it on my reports, and they cant. I have tried to get pay for deletes, and it has never, ever worked for me, unfortunately. My collections were so small that it seemed to bother me more than the creditor whether or not they got paid
My opinion is that when you paid it, you lost all the power of the FDCPA and FCRA. I think the courts would see it as admiting guilt. Maybe someone else here will be a little optomistic, but I still think your best chance is to work with investigations with the Credit Reporting agency. I'm surprised BBauer hasn't chimed in on this one yet.... maybe he can offer a different opinion, but I think the problem lies with you lost the power when you paid the debt.
Let's just look at this realisically instead of from the standpoint of the downtrodden. Even if a judgment has been entered against someone, they can still demand and obtain proof of the debt at any time and it must be provided. Yes, I realize it's supposedly been paid off, and that still makes no difference. Proof must be provided upon demand. If it has been paid off, then you do not have the protection of the FDCPA. On the other hand, can they prove that you did pay it off? They have to provide that too upon demand. If not, you can take them to small claims and get the proof that way. I believe that a reasonable approach to the situation just might lie in the idea that if you sent them demand to prove that the debt has been paid under threat of referring the matter to your attorney if they don't provide proof of payment within 30 days you just might get their attention and the proof you want. Of course, the flip side of that is that if they don't provide within the 30 days, you would then have the grounds to demand proof that you ever did owe the debt and give them 30 days to prove that or you refer the matter to your attorney. Naturally, you don't want to actually try to sue them and I seriously doubt you could get an attorney to take the case anyway unless you were willing to put up enough money to make it worth his time. So in order to help avoid actually going to court, I'd also immediately file complaints on them at the end of the first 30 day period with the BBB, the State's AG and whoever else I could think of. The point in doing that is that you can hope that doing so would cause them so much grief trying to answer all the complaints that they might just up and do your bidding without having to go to court. And then at the same time, I'd also go after the Hospital or medical facility to prove that you ever did write them a hot check and when. Whatever, the whole thing is going to be a whole lot of hassle and so it just depends on how much hassle you are willing to give them in order to get the job done. You might not ever get anywhere, but what the heck. Should be fun just seeing how much grief you can give them.
I never ever pay a NSF check with out first having the original check in hand.One is under no legal obligation prior to this occurring !Also I do not pay bounced checks when the funds are or were on deposit at the time the check was presented for payment.I don't make good on checks that don't bear my name and my banks name either. One reason I have taken this position is because this whole bounced check thing is an industry rip off!
MR. Brown HOW TRUE!!!! There has to be a comeback to these rip-off artists that Mr. Brown just mentioned. Although I'm not really pursueing the issue at this time, my son bounced a check a while back and the check went through on the 2nd trip through the bank. The rip-off artist handling checks for the merchant then wanted their fees. So they kept hitting my sons very small bank account for their cut and that caused my son 3 more bounced check charges for a total of $75 on a $4.95 check he wrote. Outrageous! Unbelieveable! but true. And he still owes the damned collector another $25. So they will badmouth him for the next 7 years. I am working on a strategy to take them to the cleaners instead, and I know that I am going to have to go out on one of my "crazy ideas" binges to get anywhere at all unless somebody can give me a better way to go. Here is my plan in steps. 1. Go back to the same store and try to write another check, this time with funds in the bank, naturally. 2. Get refused on the check and fix up a letter after about 2 weeks have passed that says that the merchant has violated the law because he refused to grant credit and divulge the name and address and phone number of the credit reporting agency that he used to deny credit. This would be based on the concept that a check is an instrument of debt and therefore an issuance of credit or the denial thereof. Yes, that's a stretch to say the least, but I gotta have some way to attack. The letter threatens legal action for the merchant's supposed violation of the law. I'm thinking the merchant would get scared and tell my son who is collecting his checks for him which he has refused to do so far. 3. Once my son knows who the check collector is, then he demands a credit report from them and sends validation letter and takes the check collector down the creditwrench road from there, whatever happens. Now then, please pick my probably crazy scheme apart for me and tell me what you think.
You may have lost the power of fdcpa & fcra but not the power of business law in court. Paying something in error or coercion is not an admission of anything! They never lost the power to demand seeing the original check or the right to receive proof of the debt simply cause they paid the check!
This causes a chain reaction and they know it. That is why they set it up to take advantage of the domino effect.A bounced check is like hitting the slot machines for them as it allows them to bilk you out of unearned money! LB. Perhaps I should have said chin reaction,as we take it on the chin!
Bill... I'm interested... Why do you think it MUST be provided? I know that it COULD be provided, but what law requires the creditor or the collection agency to provide proof of the debt?
What is the law that you base this on? What crime would they be commiting if they didn't supply the original debt and just gave her the letter she mentions? At the same time, I think we've fallen off-topic. She wants to know how to get it off her credit report... Are you saying that the FCRA and FDCPA would still apply? Why? In court, how would you defend the creditors/collection agency's defense that she admitted guilt by providing payment?
Bkev: That would depend upon the circumstances. Prior to judgment being granted, FDPA would apply as well as actual Rules of Civil or whatever Procedure. Once judgment had been granted the debtor would have to go into court and file motion to vacate or other motion to demand proof of debt I would think. I'm not an attorney as all well know, so once we start talking legal action I'm not yet on all that firm of footing. If it's in actual court hearing, the debtor can demand proof of payment and the plaintiff must comply if he has not already done so in his motions either through affidavit or testimony of qualified witness. So, yes, I think that the creditor or his attorney can be forced to provide proof of debt one way or the other at just about any time. It probably gets somewhat problematical once the debt has been completely paid off. He might get it and he might not. Odds are not all that great once it's been paid off. But even a paid off judgment can be challenged at any time if sufficient grounds is available.
But we're talking about this situation, where the debt has been paid. I know you're allowed discovery if a lawsuit is filed, but that is not the case here. I believe you even recommended against an actual lawsuit in this thread, but I could be wrong. So... Are we in agreement that this a gray area of the law that does not clearly provide relief under either the FDCPA or FCRA because it is paid?
Thanks for your help, my friends.. Bill: The letter I received was sent to the BBB, in response to an online complaint I filed. The BBB in turn sent me a copy. I havent yet complained to the AG office, but I may do that. It just irks me that I was in an awkward position and I paid this, and it may not even be mine. I just checked the info sheet they have on me. It has the wrong birthdate, misspelled name, and wrong contact number. I called the original medical place, they have no record of me, nor do they have any info on the CA. Unfortunately, I have a family member with a similar name, same former addy, and similar social security number, so it really may not be mine, as our credit has been mixed up before. I will update if anything changes....I did send a response demanding a copy of the check. THey had no trouble getting my credit report, so I dont buy that they couldnt find me to notify me.
Well, it's going to be an uphill fight unless you can prove that it isn't you and then it's going to ba a fast ride downhill for them if you want to pursue it all the way to the courtroom. If you do that, I'd suggest looking up David Szwak or some other good lawyer who specializes in those kinds of case. They aren't just all over the place, but you can find some good ones on the internet.
I just wanted to let you know that I won this round! The creditor called me to "work this thing out" and while he tried to tell me that the debt existed whether or not they had the check, I held firm. I told them that their letter to me seemed to center on the returned check, and without it, they had no case. I also told him I didnt appreciate the inflammatory, slanderous letter his associate sent me saying that I knew all about the debt and chose to ignore it. He basically caved, and I was thrilled (this never happens to me.) H told me to dispute the item and he wouldnt verify. I told him that since I disputed it already, Exp wouldnt reinvestigate, and I needed a letter from him clearly outlining that the item was placed in error and he would remove it. I got it today, and sent it to EXP. Thanks for all your help guys!!
There's something about Mary.. Way 2 go...that totally ROCKS! Ding...and that round goes to Mary, TKO the champ is down, and he's not getting up! Congratulations. -Peace, Dave
