Rescoring Info

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Marie, Jul 21, 2001.

  1. Marie

    Marie Well-Known Member

    ok, I met with a guy who does rescoring successfully. you guys wanted to know what he told me. I'll tell you, and you can discuss it as you like. I'm taking it at face value.

    For what it's worth, here it is:

    Look at a mortgage report (tri-merge) and compare it to your consumer reports. Generally there are differences that are hurting you that you may not see on your reports. I am certainly proof of that. You must have a true idea of what your lenders are seeing.

    Be careful of Experian. Their coding is off and they don't always correct tradelines (from neg to pos). even if you think things are fine.. they may still show as derog to lenders.

    Accounts are not all alike:there are tiers

    Tier1: accounts tied to deposit banks
    these generate the most bang for the scoring buck.
    Think banks. AMEX, Bank of America, Citibank, Chase, FirstUnion. you get the idea.
    Tier2: accounts not tied to deposit banks but are not finance companies (or affiliated with finance companies)
    FirstUSA, Cap1, Providian
    Tier3: accounts tied to finance companies. these will actually decrease your score as compared to Tier 1&2
    Fleet, Household (b/c of HFC), American General, etc.

    To max your score keep to 2-3 revolving accounts from Tier 1 and 1-2 installment accounts from Tier 1 banks (open accounts). Work up to tier 1 accounts. Cancel tier 3. not worth it. not really helping you. Tier 2 is up to you. Try to trade up but don't cancel your oldest card if it's a tier 2 (you need the age too).

    Accounts increase in points in increments:
    12 mos
    24 mos Big jump in points
    36 mos. At 36 you've gotten the max points from an account.

    You take a hit for 6 mos on a new account.

    once you close an account you keep a positive effect for 36 months maximum post closing. then it's neutral.

    For mortgage models: inquiries after 90 days have regained most points lost. individual credit card companies may have differing models regarding inquiries' maximums for computer approval (eg: Amex).

    Ratios are THE scoring factor (assuming no huge derogs). Revolving ratios that are high hurt big. installments ratios in comparison are nada. They don't want to see high credit card RATIOs. Pay them down or increase your limits. under 25% is ok. He thinks it goes in 10% increments (but this is more a guess). He was certain high ratios kill scores if it's on revolving debt.

    Watch the last date of activity (DLA). The last 12 mos count most (good or bad) for scoring and most companies count the last 24 mos heaviest.

    So, if an old account that used to hurt you has aged... but they do something to change your DLA to this month... your score is going to take a hit. (I know, we think if the derog happened in 1998 and it's been good since we're ok). He said the DLA is the determining factor for a score from a tradeline.

    Eg: If the account has been perfect but it's DLA was 4 years ago... it's neutral to your score. Have something happen to the account, change the DLA to now, and boom score boost. that's why we're supposed to use the good cards, the model needs recent activity.

    He believes prm inquiries do hurt scores. Opt out. Do the 2 year deal at 888-5opt out. He's not sure if there's more boost with the permanent opt out. He's only tested the 2 year deal.

    Now, a quicker strategy to more points is as follows. IF your score in in the low 600s to mid 600s now (NOT under 600)... To do a 90+ 120 day score boost he recommends the following (esp if you're getting a mortgage or wanting to go prime):

    1. 2 year promo opt out. confirm promo.
    2. Pick your older/better 2-3 cards, cancel all the rest. all. confirm cancellation is reporting on your reports. Have 1-2 installments open.
    3. Do not apply for a thing.
    4. Correct any errors you can but only if it won't generate any merchant inquiries.

    Wait for your score to rebound.
    If your score is under 600 he said it doesn't work as much (the models are likely tiered based on where we currently are)?.. who knows. This is experiential information.

    Ok, some of this is a bit more radical. I'm cringing at the thought of losing 6 cards but it's put a bee in my bonnet to get them combined sooner. I guess you need to Know your goal and act accordingly.

    On my score "account aging" is an issue. If I close the last 6 and keep my oldest 3 I go from 13 mos age to 23 mos age. Next month that code could drop from my model if I only had those older 3 cards.

    Now, also when you do this assume no huge balances. Take out an installment debt consolidation if you have to with your bank and pay off the credit cards!!! If you cancel the new but keep huge ratios on the remaining 2-3 cards the ratio could outdo the other boost.

    So paydown to under 25%, cancel down to 3 cards, 1-2 installments... and get out of those extra inquiries and he was guessing I'd jump from mid 600s to over 700. That's prime. Even if it took 6-9 mos for the score to increase it'd be worth it.

    Now, I have a bk so some prime cards won't touch me yet so I'm more timing sensitive. I don't want to shut down most of my credit if I'm not getting a mortgage for 2 years or if prime cards won't touch me for another 2 years or so (5 years post bk). I can do the more radical stuff in a year and a half.

    Anyway, these are the suggestions I got. :)
    Most of us are too revolving heavy to max the model. His idea is that if you've been building / rebuilding and you boost your score, you can then go out and get that mortgage or more Prime cards with higher limits per card.

    I think that's it. Do what you want with the info:)

    Subject: the Fair Credit Reporting Act is neither Fair nor Acting like much. Talk amongst yourselves.
  2. FeliceRodo

    FeliceRodo Well-Known Member

    "Now, I have a bk so some prime cards won't touch me yet so I'm more timing sensitive. I don't want to shut down most of my credit if I'm not getting a mortgage for 2 years or if prime cards won't touch me for another 2 years or so (5 years post bk). I can do the more radical stuff in a year and a half."


    What prime credit cards can we get after 5 years have past since filing bk?


    -- Felice
  3. roni

    roni Well-Known Member

    I definitely agree with the finance co part. When I opened the 2 new accounts with Household bank back in May, my credit analysis said my score was lowered by having too many finance company accounts. That was a bad move obviously. I closed the accounts because of customer service problem, but my score will still suffer a hit until i figure out a way to get the two accounts off. Besides that I had a car loan with Household that I refinanced in April 2001. I guess my old orchard account didnt help either. It never ends...........
  4. Marie

    Marie Well-Known Member

    that's my personal timeline. I have a friend in Bank of America who's a vp... will pull strings if my fico is prime and bk is over 5 years...

    I've been a Nationsbank then BofA cusomer for 10 years or so and I used to date his roommate :)

    I have been told that First Union will manually consider after 5 years...

    Suntrust and Southtrust here in Atlanta are a bit more friendly to bks if the score is prime.

    I'm doing a worst case scenario here. My next move is against the CRAs. If everything works out well, I'm going to try and parole myself out of bk hell sooner than later. But I never count my chickens before they hatch :)

    I negotiate for a living. I've got 10 years under my belt. I approach this whole thing expecting to get a no from a bank. I ask beforehand "if I get declined by your computer can someone override it? if so, who and under what circumstances?"

    If my bk continues to show, I can bet you I'll go prime by negotiation :) and not by computer approval.

    If you call around for installment loans from banks you'll get their criteria.

    Some say no with a bk. period.

    some say yes but after x timeperiod and with reestablished credit.

    some go only by score and bk isn't an issue (but they're mostly credit unions that don't report to all 3).

    credit cards will be the same way.

    You know, I didn't think to ask if credit unions count as tier1, but I am guessing they do.
  5. Saar

    Saar Banned

    Excellent advice.

    A few notes:

    1. I don't see what's the difference between a "tier 1" company and a "tier 2" company. All credit card companies lend money through banks, including Providian ("Providian national bank") & the like.

    2. Closing all CC accounts except for 2, may indeed be a positive step towards a mortgage (quick score boost), but not recommended as a long-term building strategy.

    3. I remain sceptic about the opt-out effect. But I've done it anyway, and only time will tell. I'd be happy to say I was wrong.

  6. FeliceRodo

    FeliceRodo Well-Known Member


    I was told by my Bank of America rep that I could apply for a BofA credit card four years post bk, five would be better. The computer would automatically turn me down, but a second review would be favorable based on credit history and percentage of deposits in the bank in both savings, checking, and CDs. Prima account would look good.

    She said that the higher the percentage of deposits the probable higher the credit line and platinum status.

    Do you think her advice is good? Would one have to go prima, or even, say, have $100,000 in deposits to get the Platinum at a good tradeline, say 10k and above?

    Thanks for the great rescoring info. Hope you respond.

  7. frankowes

    frankowes Well-Known Member

    >Look at a mortgage report (tri-merge) and >compare it to your consumer reports. Generally >there are differences that are hurting you that you >may not see on your reports. I am certainly proof >of that. You must have a true idea of what your >lenders are seeing.

    Could this information also be coming from Innovis?

    SCHOLR Well-Known Member

    Mortgages vary greatly by Bank,

    two years a go I had an 8 yr old BK7, and approx.

    30K in revolving, with a 650 tri-merged report,

    and 1 auto lease, plus a first and second

    mortgage on an income property that was not being










  9. frankowes

    frankowes Well-Known Member

    Is it possible the merged report has anything to do with innovis. Everybody worries about the big 3 but nobody thinks about innovis. There is a credit reporting underground here.
  10. SCHOLR

    SCHOLR Well-Known Member

  11. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    Ohhhhhhhhh!! Let's write them and get our files.

  12. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

  13. frankowes

    frankowes Well-Known Member

    Innovis is the next biggest. I've them a letter requesting my credit report. Since nobody is paying attention to them I think they are the next we should be focusing our attention on. Who knows what the hell they are doing?
  14. breeze

    breeze Well-Known Member

    You're not kidding. And they are staying low profile - I had a rough time finding any address at all, saw a Motley Fool page where CBC divested itself of Innovis, and now on their site it says they are part of CBC. They also do collections, sell databases, you name it. Whew.

    What address did you have for them? I am going to write them. We should raise their profile for them ;)

  15. making

    making Well-Known Member

    can you please explain a little more about the person you spoke with marie? In particular, if you know how he got this information, but just more specific about his job title and type of company he works for.
  16. frankowes

    frankowes Well-Known Member

    The only address they have is on the website for opt out. And the only info they have is for sales....of credit reports. I sent a letter to the opt out address and an email to sales. No info for consumers. It seems to me since they are reporting info they should have an address for consumers. We should all email/mail them. And could this be where Maries' "Merged Report" may have come from. I'm sure I can dig up more.
  17. tmitchell

    tmitchell Well-Known Member

    From their website:

    Contacting Innovis Data Solutions

    We are unable to handle disclosures or disputes of your credit report at this website.

    For more information, please send your request to:
    Innovis Data Solutions
    Attn: Consumer Relations
    P. O. Box 219297
    Houston, TX 77218

    For more information on our products and services only:

    E-mail your: Name, Phone, E-mail, along with your product and service choice.

    To E-mail Innovis click here: Products and Sales

  18. bbauer

    bbauer Banned

    It's obvious that the website at

    does not even come close to lsting all the credit bureaus.

    Trans Union and Equifax for a couple are not even mentions.
    They actually have a very few of all of them that we know are out there spewing info about us all over the country.

    It begins to look like there are more credit reporing agencies out there than Medusela had snakes.on her head.
  19. Hope

    Hope Well-Known Member

    FYI, Fleet is not a finance company. Rather it is FleetBank Boston and is a deposit bank, accepting checking, saving, money market, etc. accounts.

    So maybe that one's a tier 1 after all.


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