I have spent the last 24 hours viewing everything I could on whether I should pay up or ride this one out. Let me say that, at age 65, I have taken pride that my credit has been pristine -- up to mid-2008. In 2003 I retired early due to layoff -- retirement income incl SS=$18,000/yr. In 2005 I was debt-free. It didn't then seem like a stretch to finance a small business for my son on credit plus about $20,000 of my own retirement funds. He was unable to pay me on schedule so I ended up taking a charge off on my CapOne card at about 50%; debt total was around $8,000. Allowing him use of my Amex card, I watched it continue to climb from $12K to $16K, then to $20K. In mid 2008, I could not continue making the $400/mo payments on the Amex. It seemed that as soon as I'd pay the monthly charges, they were maxed out, the main cause was the cost of his fuel at nearly $5/gal. Later in the year he was able to pay me about $500/wk, but I'd already stopped paying AmEx due to major auto expenses I was incurring on my only other card. Ok, no more excuses for him OR me. It is what it is. To date: Letter from AE dated 11/13/08 stating total due $21,500 (included $1500 interest accumulation, now at $2500) "...your account has been TRANSFERRED to Nationwide Credit, Inc. for collections.) with instructions to pay full balance. Of course, they will not take any calls from me now, since I am in collections. They have credited me the occasional payments I have made, between $50-$150 as I was able, a total of about $800. Letter from NCI also dated 11/13/08 stating "...American Express REFERRED it [debt] to our company." I did not notify them within their 30-day limit that the debt was not valid, per their instructions in bold because I knew I was responsible to pay the charges. Due to the language "transferred" and "referred" and the ensuing conversations with NCI, I can only surmise after reading these posts that AE did not sell the debt, but that NCI is acting in their behalf merely as a collection agency. Due to my previous negotiations with CapOne, I figured if I waited NCI might cut me a deal. I have to say, they have never been rude, pressured me, nor called me excessively. The last few days they have told me there is a program they call Care, that I am eligible for. It seems legit, and after reading everything I can on how Amex plays hardball, I have stopped dreaming they might offer a settlement if I wait long enough. They are telling me if I pay all late fees and interest ($3500) to bring the debt to current, the program offer is 0% with 0 fees for 6 months at which time the interest will go to 9.9% -- significantly better than my current 29! When they receive the $3500, they will refigure my minimum monthly (they are going to fax me the hard numbers in 2 days) estimated at around $650. All of that will go to the principal for 6 months. That should take the debt down to around $15,600 this time next year. They tell me that after a year, they will revisit the account and I may be once again eligible for another 0% interest offer. I was hoping the $2500 interest accumulated since July could be waived, but they have assured me it will not, and after reading these boards, I think they may be correct. Supposedly this is only a month old program. It sounds like a better deal than Oasis because of the 0% interest. I am not interested in "qualifying" for another AmEx card, which I have been told I will be eligible. Also, with my home and car paid for, at my age I can see little reason to be concerned about any credit score. I could be dead in the 7 years it takes to be removed from my credit reports! [Just as an aside, I was told my credit score was over 800. I find that incredible, given the CapOne charge-off. It is my belief that even if he's telling the truth, as soon as I make my first payment to NCI, and they report it, the score will drop significantly.] The thing I did not like was one of the Ops Mgrs at NCI told me I should consider a home equity loan to pay them. Also, that it has taken me 2 days to get through their skulls that I am not going to send ANY money until I can see in hard numbers just what that will mean for me in payments -- tantamount to signing a contract with the blanks left empty! They first held to their guns by telling me that info was held by AmEx and they had no idea what the monthly payments would be. I told them that it's simply "formula" and should be easy enough to obtain. Sticking to MY guns, they have called me twice today with information that they will be able (I mentioned above) to fax me hard figures on Friday. The monthly payments will be more than half my income, but in March my son will start working again and hopefully will be able to throw some more money my way if business picks up. If it doesn't I may have to default again, because I cannot sustain these payments long-term. I am already starting to apply for jobs -- not my idea of "retirement". I have seen many threads with advice to not talk to the agencies, especially NCI (they are now located in Canada, not the US, which may mean they can throw some of the former restrictions out the window). However, although my debt is in collections, and nearly 180 days old, waiting 2 or 3 years as some on the boards seem to have done, with possible court action against my home (I don't qualify for chap. 7) is not an option. Those are uncharted waters for me, and I've worked hard to pay for my home in the 10 years after my divorce on a secretary's salary. Does anyone see any red flags? Green flags? I just am looking for some assurance since I am pretty much alone and unable to afford legal advice. Thanks, and sorry this is so long. .
Here's a hard number they are not going to like.200 a month no interest for 3 years.then as far as you concerned it will then be paid in full.Social securtiy is judgement proof.Just make sure the only money that goes' in your account is ss money.
I have already opened a separate account which I intend to keep only the amount that will satisfy them on a timely basis for payment.
Like i said they can't touch ss/only 25%of other income.Like you said amex normally don't sell their account's.You would think with the bailout money they could help out some people who our hurting.
Amex using bailout money to help people out???? Hell will freeze over before ANY bank uses the bailout funds to help people out.
In one of my calls, I reminded the manager of the parable of the debtor who had been forgiven much, but would not forgive little. Matthew 28 (The Message) 23-35"The kingdom of God is like a king who decided to square accounts with his servants. As he got under way, one servant was brought before him who had run up a debt of a hundred thousand dollars. He couldn't pay up, so the king ordered the man, along with his wife, children, and goods, to be auctioned off at the slave market. "The poor wretch threw himself at the king's feet and begged, 'Give me a chance and I'll pay it all back.' Touched by his plea, the king let him off, erasing the debt. "The servant was no sooner out of the room when he came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him ten dollars. He seized him by the throat and demanded, 'Pay up. Now!' "The poor wretch threw himself down and begged, 'Give me a chance and I'll pay it all back.' But he wouldn't do it. He had him arrested and put in jail until the debt was paid. When the other servants saw this going on, they were outraged and brought a detailed report to the king. "The king summoned the man and said, 'You evil servant! I forgave your entire debt when you begged me for mercy. Shouldn't you be compelled to be merciful to your fellow servant who asked for mercy?' The king was furious and put the screws to the man until he paid back his entire debt. And that's exactly what my Father in heaven is going to do to each one of you who doesn't forgive unconditionally anyone who asks for mercy."
Were not dealing with honest people who only offer forgiveness for their selves.And greg your right again.
While they may not be able to touch your SS income, depending on what state you are in, they may be able to reach your other assets (like your house) which they obviously know about. What state are you in? Nationwide historically is an assignee of Amex, and doesn't own the debt. If some of the older threads are still here, others have worked with Nationwide on Amex accounts, and were dealt with pretty honestly. YMMV in these times.
I don't think they do know about my house. They've asked, but I haven't divulged. It was from an attorney consultation that I learned they could place a lien on it, so I guess if there was a homestead act in place here, he would have known about it. Today I have been feeling like their offer to me of monthly payments is more than I can agree, although I think that to postpone will put me even farther under. Looking back, I should have continued paying the $400/mo. So, even though there has been over $2000 fees and interest piled on top of my balance 6 months ago, I guess the bright spot, if there is one, is that I will get 6 months of zero interest and fees and, hopefully, in just 3 months, my son will be back in work and he can pick up the monthly payments for me. And after that, a $15,000 balance will be charged at 9.9%. (My original credit was $16,000 @ 6.9% and the remaining at 9.9%) I told you my credit history was pristine prior to this Does anyone think I have any bargaining chips for reduction of the interest fees or monthly payments? I will be totally wiped out financially by the time my son starts working again. Just another question: is it bad if a credit agency suggests the card holder take out another loan to pay off the one delinquent? I saw that several places in some searches and it looked as if it was a big "no-no". NCO mgr. in 2 conversations told me I should talk to my bank about a home equity line to pay them off (They know I'm a home "owner"--just not that it's paid off.) If I let this play out, what is the worst that can happen if they place a lien against my house? As I understand it, they will have to be paid out of the proceeds only IF AND WHEN I sell. But at what point do their fees and interest stop accumulating? (What is YMMV?)
Are you dealing with Nationwide or NCO? I assume you got this info from an attorney "if and when I sell"? If they get a judgment, the fees stop, but interest keeps accumulating at your state's set percentage.
Sorry, my mistake. Nationwide Credit, Inc out of Canada. (I appreciate everyone's input, as I am totally out of my element, and reading so much gets kind of confusing.)
First thing is, you are not alone here. I ran up huge gambling debts on my cards due to a drug I was taking for Parkinson's. I was buried and very scared. When I finally realized the smartest thing for me to do was to just stop paying them, I felt like a tremendous load was lifted, it was both liberating and empowering. Now I am dealing with the consequences, but out of a position of "strength" and not fear. (I have money--my income--and they want it). My phone rings incessantly, but as I told my wife, is it worth $200k for them to stop calling? I didn't think so. Recognize this situation for what it is, a mind game is being played on you, they are using psychological pressure to get you to act out of fear, not rationally. The fact is, it is very likely they have few prospects to get the money out of you unless you willingly give it to them. You deserve to enjoy your life. Do you have a caller ID box and an answering machine? Let them call and stew for a few months, I'm sure the offers will get better. Worst case, they sue you, get a judgement, they get paid when you sell the house. How is that any different from taking out a home equity loan and paying them now? Easy ... better for you (no payments) and worse for them (wait 5..10..15 years to get paid? Remember this is corporate america. They measure results quarterly.) Seems to me you're worried about the interest rate and late fees. All that stuff is just part of the psy-ops pressure game they are playing. To me that stuff is funny money. Everything is negotiable. You have a lot of factors working in your favor. Hang tough.
I used to play games with them.I'd answer the phone and show real cocern about the matter and just talk away and in the middle of the talk just hang up,when they called back i'd ask why they cut me off,and in the middle of the sentence hang up again.The next time i'd tell them to have there phone system checked,then in the middle hang up again.Just a little fun.
I like messing with the ones from India or where clearly English is not spoken at home ... when they offer the free check by phone I'm like, oh really, how much is my free check for? I have a good Polycom speakerphone now from Ebay so it's no problem talking for as long as they want, unless I'm busy, like if Reno 911 is on.
Honestly, I see no valid reason to pay this unless you intend on selling your home. They will sue but, again, it will just result in an encumbrance.
Sorry not to come in with more informed history on regular posters. So, I don't know if you own your homes or not, but I paid for mine with lots of sacrifice while working, and the remainder (less than half) in the 7th year because my mom died and left me only enough to pay off my house. So I feel I have a great deal to lose if I try to play games with these credit agencies whose goal is to get the money. In retrospect, it would have been easier if I'd worked a little harder to KEEP paying monthly when I felt myself slipping, than to have to give up $2,000 to accumulated interest when NCI has never showed one iota of willingness to remove even one month's interest. It's not that I feel I've been beaten down. I just am so out of my element and no attorney friends to consult or pay, that I am not willing to take the risk of putting myself (and my home) at the mercy of their cutthroat lawyers. BTW, the information I have is that the fees stop, but interest continues to mount so it wouldn't take long for that to totally overtake the value of my home. If I'm mistaken, I'm happy for someone to point it out but it won't change my mind on starting to repay while I still qualify for their 0/0 program.
We need to know what state you live in, and the estimated value of the home. The fact that Capital One settled for 50%, and they are a tough creditor, should tell you that you are in a pretty strong position. If somebody thinks they can shake money out of you by scaring you, then believe me, they will try. Once they begin to realize that they can't the offers will get better. Another couple of months isn't going to change the interest by very much but it will change their attitude a whole lot I believe. Really, I would just stop talking with them for a while. I would also suggest playing the medical angle for all its worth. I would hint that you have a serious medical condition that is likely to deplete your resources in the very near future. That should get them to the negotiating table in a hurry. That is the red flag for them that a chapter 7 is coming and they'll get nothing. Besides the good feeling that comes from stiffing Amex you need to consider what will happen if you get sick and need that money for yourself. In other words, at your age, it's a good chance that even with your best efforts and intentions that you wouldn't complete their plan anyway. Their odds of collecting are really poor. I'd guess the late fees and interest they're trying to collect upfront is the CA's "profit" in the deal. That's a total ripoff. Just wait them out.
You have a few now although you may not know it . . . In any event, if you wish to pay it there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The issue is "can" you pay it. If so, do so.
I think allowing someone with 18k of income to have a 20k credit line on a revolving card is absolutely insane. When my mother in law died I discovered she had a Chase card with a $24k limit, she had no assets and lived in a subsidized apartment on $800 a month social security (she never worked). The beauty of lending by credit score only. :-( It seems mylateamex just wants to go back to paying the original balance on the original terms, and the barrier to that is Amex's inflexible collections. You could try writing a nice letter to explain this to Amex's CEO, often writing to the "Office of the President" or CEO elicits a response from a troubleshooter. Otherwise I'd just go back to hanging tough and waiting for a better offer.
