Re: Re: Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? Here is a letter I found on Google concerning an auto dealership: Re:Section 604 of the Fair Credit Reporting Act Dear Ms. Coffey: This responds to your letter dated August 29, 1997, asking the views of the Commission staff on a number of issues concerning application of the amended Fair Credit Reporting Act("FCRA"), <text deleted here for space purposes> More generally, you ask "when is the beginning of a business transaction" initiated by the consumer? In responding to this question, it is important to note that Section 604(a)(3)(F)limits this "business need" permissible purpose to transactions (i) that are "initiated" by theconsumer and (ii) where the seller has a "legitimate business need" for the information. The staff's view is that an automobile dealer may obtain a report only in those circumstances in which the consumer clearly understands that he or she is initiating the purchase or lease of a vehicle and the seller has a legitimate business need for the consumer report information in order to complete the transaction ___________________________________________ In the topic author's case. She/he did not "clearly understand" that the "seller had a business need" to pull a report to "complete the transaction" of the shoes. Furthermore, the Ohio board of Law refers to an acceptable business transaction as defined in the FCRA as a A transaction that occurs between a company and another company, as opposed to a transaction involving a consumer. A Consumer is defined as: An individual who buys products or services for personal use and not for manufacture or resale. I highly doubt that the author's friend planned to resell that pair of shoes she bought. There now I hope that puts an end to this argument.
: signing check authorizes hard inq.? Thats the letter I posted a link to early on in this thread. Unfortunately you missed a very important part: The dealer may also obtain a report to check a consumer's creditworthiness when the consumer presents a personal check to pay for the vehicle. By contrast, a permissible purpose would not arise if a consumer intends to pay by cash. Here's the footnote: 1. The dealer's "permissible purpose" here is provided by Section 604(a)(3)(A), which permits the use of consumer reports in connection with a credit transaction involving the consumer. The opinion of FTC staff appears to be that a check is extending credit, albeit for a few days. Here's the link to the entire letter: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/coffey.htm#N_1_
Re: : signing check authorizes hard inq.? Sorry but that does not apply to a "consumer purchasing goods or services not intended for manufacture or resale." A sales associate cannot pull a credit report on a consumer purchasing a pair of shoes with a personal check. That is not considered a "business transaction" as spelled out by the FCRA. The consumer is not applying for credit merely purchasing a pair of shoes. That is why STORES DO NOT DO IT. And if they do, they are asking for trouble. You cannot apply a broad stroke to the term "business transaction."
Re: : signing check authorizes hard inq.? I would like to read where the Ohio Board of Law interpreted that a business transaction in the FCRA refers only business to business, since the FCRA is a consumer protection law, and is not a protection generally afforded businesses.
Re: : signing check authorizes hard inq.? My brother is a franchise owner of one of the largest retail stores in the U.S. He said he would never run a customer's credit report based on a signature on her personal check. He said he's not a lawyer but ANY defense he put forth would not hold up in court. He didn't have any examples to support his theory because it simply isn't done in retail stores - definitely not in his store! He said imagine if a gas station ran your credit report because you paid with a check.
Re: Re: : signing check authorizes hard inq.? imagine if a gas station ran your credit report because you paid with a check. SoParkDiva ================ This means that every bill you pay is an inquire on your report. This ought to be good for dozens of inquires per year posted to your reports. You can get 36 inquires a year just by paying your monthly gas electric and water bills. Fits in real nice with the FICO con job. Now they have found a way to screw you just for paying your bills. The END ************************* LB 59 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" What Is Validation? http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...ht= validation The END ************************* LB 59
Re: Re: : signing check authorizes hard inq.? INQUIRY for EVERY CHECK...you would be down to 350 F.I.C.O. IN NO TIME!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Re: Re: : signing check authorizes hard inq.? Just like i'm saying here George. This means that every bill you pay is an inquire on your report. This ought to be good for dozens of inquires per year posted to your reports. You can get 36 inquires a year just by paying your monthly gas electric and water bills. Fits in real nice with the FICO con job. Now they have found a way to screw you just for paying your bills. The END ************************* LB 59 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Re: Re: Re: : signing check authorizes hard inq.? [color=red white blue]It all sounds like a scam. kemcos ================= The scam is it's a way to sink your scores so they can screw you for paying your bills also. The END ************************* LB 59[/color]
1*Do you not feel this is a "business transaction"? 2*Do you not feel they are in effect granting you credit until that check clears? 3*Do you not think that to accept a check from you they have a legitimate interest in your financial "reputation"? jason_l =============== 1*Business transactions and loan applications are 2 different things/. one requires a contract the other an application 2*No:I am giving them my money not taking theirs. 3*No.that and my checking account are 2 different things. The END ***************
Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? 1) A business transaction is PP. And one does need to "apply for credit" in order for credit to be extended to them. You give me a check, you're asking me to extend you credit until I get legal tender in my hands. 2) You are not giving them money, you are giving them an IOU to take to the bank. A check is not legal tender, and they have no idea whether that account even has a penny in it. They have extended you credit until that check clears. The footnotes to that opinion letter even specificly stated paying by check was in fact a credit transaction and therefore PP. The FTC even seems to be of the opinion that this is PP based on both "business transaction" and "credit transaction" arguements. 3) see #2. Again, it seems folks for th emost part can't really find much to counter the FTC opinion, yet will keep tyring to debate it based on how stupid it is and how it could really screw the consumer. As true as it is, I'd say that it's irrelevant, and it's not any sort of counter arguement that I would be willing to try to use in court. Maybe others feel otherwise, civilized people can disagree SoParkDiva: I live in Ohio and have been wanting to do some research on the state consumer protection laws. I wondered if could get a link from you?
Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? came across this while researching somebody's question.. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/tatelbaum.htm a merchant to whom a consumer offers a personal check as payment for goods or services has a "permissible purpose" to obtain a consumer report
Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? and Section 604(a)(3)(F) allows a person to obtain a consumer report in connection with non-credit transactions. Section 604(a)(3)(F)(i) provides a permissible purpose on behalf of a party who has a legitimate business need for a report "in connection with a business transaction that is initiated by the consumer." Thus, for example, a merchant may procure a report on a consumer who offers to pay for goods with a personal check. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/long.htm
Re: Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? This means that every bill you pay is an inquire on your report. This ought to be good for dozens of inquires per year posted to your reports. You can get 36 inquires a year just by paying your monthly gas electric and water bills. Fits in real nice with the FICO con job. Now they have found a way to screw you just for paying your bills. The END ************************* LB 59 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" What Is Validation? http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...ht= validation
Re: Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? 1) A business transaction is PP. And one does need to "apply for credit" in order for credit to be extended to them. 2*You give me a check, you're asking me to extend you credit until I get legal tender in my hands. 3) You are not giving them money, you are giving them an IOU to take to the bank. 4*A check is not legal tender, and they have no idea whether that account even has a penny in it. 5*They have extended you credit until that check clears. jason_l ========================= 1*a transaction is purchasing something from the vendor. Paying for the purchase is not the transaction. 2*If I take out a loan at a bank the cash disbursed to me is the item purchased. If I present a check to a merchant where is the cash disbursement? 3*If it isn't my money the take out of the bank who's is it? 4*That is what tell check and check systems and others like them are for ;not Tu Exp. or Ex. 5*If that's so where is my cash disbursement from the credit extension? The END ************************* LB 59
Re: Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? Sorry jason_l. You're links don't prove your point. Because a consumer purchasing a product at Sears cannot have their report pulled by the sales associate without their permission. That's the law. However you want to interpret is is your business. But every retailer I have spoken to - including my own brother who owns a large retail franchise - says you are wrong.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? When I bought 15k worth car from a dealer using a third party check (which is from another bank) he gave me 2 options. 1. Fill out a credit application so that he can pull credit history only one time and if he is satisfied he will let me take the car same day. 2. Wait for the check 7 to 10 days to clear through the bank and then take the car. These days checks are bouncing for many many reasons he said.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? Your case is different. If you read the original post in this thread. It says a consumer went to Nieman Marcus and paid for goods with a personal check. Later on ( after the transaction was completed) he/she learned a credit report had been pulled. I am saying that is illegal. A merchant must ask your permission to pull a report whether you pay by check or not.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? IT NEVER TAKES 7-10 DAYS...BUT I WOULD WAIT!!! DON'T THEY HAVE A PHONE TO CALL THE BANK TO CONFIRM "AVAILABLE FUNDS"...I DO IT EVERY DAY AT WAL*MART!!! IF THE DEALERSHIP DOES NOT HAVE A PHONE...I WOULD CHANGE MY MIND AND GO TO ANOTHER DEALERSHIP THAT HAS A PHONE!!! CASH TRANSACTIONS ARE NEVER A LEGITIMATE REASON TO PULL A CREDIT REPORT!!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: signing check authorizes hard inq.? When I bought 15k worth car from a dealer using a third party check (which is from another bank) he gave me 2 options. 1. Fill out a credit application so that he can pull credit history only one time and 2*if he is satisfied he will let me take the car same day. 3*. Wait for the check 7 to 10 days to clear through the bank and then take the car. 4*These days checks are bouncing for many reasons he said. david1 ===================== 1*Why would you need to apply for credit when you already have the loan at another bank? 2*Satisfied concerning what? I would have told him to shove the car and took my business to another dealer. 3*I would have said take the deal or I'm going to give this check to another dealer. 4*
