*****Like I said I did get the "green card" back today with a scribbled signature. Slurch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Message 09/29/03 =================== ***** This is good enough. It proves they got it which is all you need.
lbrown59: So there is then no need for me to attempt to get the name of the person who signed for it to rule out that just anyone could have signed for it and then pitched it or shredded it? Sburch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Reply 09/30/03
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. It doesn't matter what they did with it. What matters is that you sent them a lawful request, and you have "prima facia" proof that they received your request. It is actually to your benefit if the toss it or shred it!
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. PD11604: Thanks for the reply. I just thought that if I'm required to correspond with them again; I'd have a name of the individual to use in a second letter but if you say no need to be concerned; then I won't be concerned but I'll definitely hold on to my RR "Green Card". Sburch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Reply 09/30/03
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. No need to use a name if writing to them again Just reference the Certified Mail # in the letter. . . For example: "Dear CA, on XX Date I wrote to you concerning Bla, Bla. I sent this letter by certified mail (# 123456 etc) As you can see from the enclosed copy of my receipt you received and signed for this letter on YY date...etc." What I do, and maybe you need to do this as well is to put the Certified Mail Tracking number prominently on EVERY PAGE of correspondence that you send them Now you have that number on a letter that you can prove was delivered to and signed for by them You don't need a person's name, when corresponding to them, just reference the letter (with tracking number) and enclose the copy of receipt of that letter (with same tracking number) This is bulletproof, slam-dunk proof that they received it
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. PD11604: Thanks for the reply. Sburch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Reply 09/30/03
lbrown59: Remember that certified letter that I told you about that I mailed to a CA in N.O., LA on September 24, 2003; I received the RR "Green Card" yesterday stamped September 26, 2003. Well at 4:50 p.m. this afternoon I received another call from that same CA, a Mr. Garcia called sounding quite aggitated. Is it possible that Mr. Garcia isn't aware of my certified letter or he's just trying to push my buttons by attempting this latest call? Again your advice is to not talk to the CA; is it now time for a second letter informing them of my first letter? Your thoughts and comments please. Sburch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Message 09/30/03
If you are past the SOL, let them sue you. All you have to do is show up in court and raise the defense that it is past the Statute of Limitations and the suit will be dismissed. You are in a good position. DON'T talk to them. If they call, just say "please communicate only in writing" and hang up. You've sent them a cease and desist so all they can do is sue you. As I mentioned above, if they do you can get it dismissed as past the SOL. What I would do is send them another letter. Since you've sent the C&D, you need to revoke it or they can't contact you. So, I would say something like "This letter modifies the terms of my letter of (date). I will accept communications from you only in writing. Please respond IN WRITING to the enclosed letter," Enclose a validation letter. Don't mention that you know the SOL is past. You don't want them to know how much you know. Hopefully they can't validate and you won't hear any more from them. Check your credit reports in about six weeks and see if the entry is gone. If not, we'll take it from there.
Hedwig: First of all; thanks for the post so if I understand you correctly you recommend that I consider doing the following: Write the CA a second certified letter and also send it with RRR. Inform the CA in my second letter to disregard my previous letter; (CL #0000-0000-0000-0000-0000 ) dated September ??, 2003 which is replaced by this CL. Inform the CA in this second CL that I will agree to communicate with them only by mail; everything has to be in writing; and to not place anymore phone calls. BTW I received a call late today; it went to voicemail. Also request that the CA validate the old CC debt and to do so in writing; something I probably should have done first rather than send the CA a C & D letter first and once the debt has been validated by them to send me a letter stating such; correct? Also at no time am I to let the CA know that my old CC debt has exceeded the SOL for my state; do not reveal that information to them; also correct? Finally are there any good examples of debt validation letters on this website or any other websites? The FTC's website perhaps? Is that pretty much it Hedwig? Sburch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Reply 09/30/03
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. 1* Here is the Validation Letter you want to send by CRRR. Don't make any changes on it and don't hand sign it. Your Name Address City State Zip Company Address City State Zip Date RE: Account #_________/Original Creditorâ??s Name Dear Sir/Madame: Thank you for your recent inquiry. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is being disputed. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Please complete and return the attached disclosure request form. Be advised that I am not requesting a "verification" that you have my mailing address, I am requesting a "validation;" that is, competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you. You should also be aware that sending unsubstantiated demands for payment through the United States Mail System might constitute mail fraud under federal and state law. You may wish to consult with a competent legal advisor before your next communication with me. Your failure to satisfy this request within the requirements of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be construed as your absolute waiver of any and all claims against me, and your tacit agreement to compensate me for costs and attorney fees. Sincerely, Your Name don't sign - - - Include the following on a separate sheet of paper - - - CREDITOR DISCLOSURE STATEMENT Name and Address of Collector (assignee): _________________________ Name and Address of Debtor: ____________________________________ Account Number(s): ____________________________________________ What are the terms of assignment for this account? You may attach a facsimile of any records relating to such terms. Have any insurance claims been made by any creditor or assignee regarding this account? YES/NO Has the purported balanced of this account been used in any tax deduction claim? YES/NO Please list the particular products or services sold by the collector to the debtor and the dollar amount of each: Upon failure or refusal of collector to validate this collection action, collector agrees to waive all claims against the debtor named herein and pay debtor for all costs and attorney fees involved in defending this collection action. ________________________________ Authorized signature for Collector Date_______/_______/_______ Please return this completed form and attach all assignment or other transfer agreements that would establish your right to collect this debt. Your claim cannot be considered if any portion of this form is not completed and returned with the required documents. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. If you do not respond as required by this law, your claim will not be considered and you may be liable for damages for continued collection efforts. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Send this letter next if you don't get validation in 30 days. Estoppel Letter DON'T CHANGE Send CRRR Your Name Address «City», «State» «Zip» Company» Address «City», «State» «Zip» «Date» RE: Dispute Letter of <insert date> Dear Sir/Madame: As I have not heard back from you in over 30 days regarding my notice of dispute dated <insert date>, and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence, Engelhardt v Gravens (Mo) 281 SW 715, 719, I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists. In a good faith effort to resolve this matter amicably, I restate my demand for proof of the debt, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature, as well as proof of your authority in this matter. Absent such proof, you must terminate this collection action and correct any erroneous reports of this debt as mine. For the record, I state again that as I have no account with you, nor am I your customer, nor have I entered into a contract with you, I must ask for the following information: Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter. What is your authorization of law for your collection of information? What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt? Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of ____________________ . Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature. You have fifteen (15) days from receipt of this notice to respond. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, hand signed, and in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you sent your letter(s) in error, and that this matter is permanently closed. Your continued silence is unacceptable. Either provide the proof or correct the record to remove the invalid debt from my credit files with the three primary credit-reporting agencies. You are currently in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Act. Failure to respond within 15 days of receipt of this registered letter will result in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $____________ in damages for the following: Defamation Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act After obtaining the judgment against your company, I will obtain a Writ of Execution from the Sheriffâ??s office in your county and I will begin the process of attaching property or funds to satisfy the judgment. For the purposes of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status. I affirm under penalty of perjury under the Laws of the Land for the United States of America, that the foregoing is true and correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief. Sincerely, Your Name DON'T SIGN THE END ** *** ** LB 59 """"```--~~~~~~~~~--```'""''' 2* This is yet another 1000 violation if they were trying to collect.
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. lbrown59: That's a mighty impressive post but I must also say that it now seems to me that I might be wading into very deep waters and could very soon be in waters way over my head. Did you or another user in this forum suggest that I write a second letter and send it also by certified mail; RRR and in my second letter send them a copy of my first letter along with a copy of my signed and dated return receipt "green card" as well as also include a statement in my second letter that my old account had passed my state's SOL and is now time barred? Is that the next letter I should write or the detailed sample which you just posted? I'm not a lawyer; this seems to be starting to get deep; should I bail out now and turn the matter over to a lawyer or attempt a second letter? I don't have any problem whatsoever with writing a second or third or fourth letter by certified mail as long as I know in my mind what I'm talking about in any such letter but your sample may be too deep for my very limited knowledge of this area of the law. I spoke to my attorney early this morning concerning this matter; an attorney who has been handling an estate matter which I have been in since October 1999 and he was going to have his secretary fax me the state of MS code as it pertained to the SOL on "open accounts". I was about ready to receive her fax when suddenly I asked her how many pages would I be receiving? The secretary replied by saying; hope you got film and paper in your fax; I'm about to send you twenty-two; (22) pages. I told her to just hold off. lbrown59; twenty-two; (22) pages? Geeeeeezzzz. By the way; thanks for that very detailed post; I certainly appreciate it and only if I can decide which letter I need to consider sending to that CA next. Decisions; decisions; decisions. Sburch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Reply 10/01/03
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. Yes, I recommended that you send a second letter. Right now you are in the situation that the only way they can contact you is to file suit. By the way, if you have proof that they received your C&D letter and they have called you, keep a record. They already have a violation against them. In this second letter, tell them that you are revising the terms of your original C&D letter. It's up to you whether to include a copy. At the same time, request validation. I personally think that the letter lbrown59 posted is overkill. Many people have used it, there is a debate about some of the things in that letter. If you do a search on validation, you will find the arguments and some other samples. Write your own validation letter. Basically, you are requesting validation of the debt. You want proof that you incurred the debt, not just verification that they have your name and address. I personally wouldn't put in the part about mail fraud, because I don't know that to be true, and in most cases you would have to prove intent to prove fraud. Tell them that if they don't respond within 30 days of the confirmed delivery, you will assume that they cannot verify and expect them to delete the entry from your reports. Don't mention the SOL. Don't mention anything that could construe that you owe the debt. I don't think you need a lawyer at this point.
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. Hedwig: In my very original post a few weeks ago I mentioned that I had accumulated this debt several years ago; didn't reveal too much of the specifics except to say when my account opened; the DOLA and etc. I have now been able to determine that my old CC debt is definitely "time barred". I went on to say that I did have trouble keeping up with the minimum monthlys on this account; an account that eventually went into default; was charged off; acquired by a CA; dropped by them a short time later; most recently acquired by this current CA. So if I understand you correctly; make no mention of SOL anywhere; even though the debt was mine years ago; make no mention of SOL but do ask that the CA attempt to validate the debt; is that pretty much correct? Your version sounds a lot simpler to use than lbrown59's; and I believe that I can do that so again; no mention of SOL; don't include anykind of documentation from my state's legal code as it pertains to "open accounts" and SOL; just ask the CA to "validate" the debt; that's it; correct? Also continue to document all calls made by the CA; like I said in an earlier post; I received a call yesterday even after the fact that my letter was received and signed for; I received the green card last weekend. Any possibility that this guy who called yesterday repesenting the CA; the same guy who has made all previous calls; any possibility that this guy may not even be aware that I sent his company a letter by certified mail which was received in N.O., LA and yet his call came from an office located somewhere well east of there; well east as in another state? Thanks for your post. Sburch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Reply 10/01/03
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. You've got it. You don't want to show your hand too much, that's why you aren't going to mention the SOL or anything. If they try to sue, you will use that as a defense. But for now, all you want them to do is validate. By law, if they can't validate they have to remove it from your credit report. At this point, that's all you're worried about. If they transfer it to another CA, just ask them to validate. You know that if anyone ever tries to do more (i.e. sue you), you have a defense. But you don't necessarily want them to know that you know. It shouldn't matter where the call came from. They need to have a system in place to know that you have sent a C&D letter. Don't make excuses for them. They're good enough at that themselves. If this just gets deleted, you just let it go. If they get nasty, you have the SOL defense and violations against them. You're doing fine!
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. Hedwig: Again; thanks for the reply. Sburch2 Biloxi, MS End Of Reply 10/01/03
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. 1* I received a call yesterday even after the fact that my letter was received and signed for; I received the green card last weekend. 2*any possibility that this guy may not even be aware that I sent his company a letter by certified mail which was received in N.O., LA 3*Your version sounds a lot simpler to use than lbrown59's Big_Steve ******************* 1*Was he trying to collect. If so bingo $1000.oo ! 2*Don't change anything if he was aware. 3*The reason you don't change the Validation letter is so that you don't say the wrong thing and get shot down. I have seen to many folks do this very thing by trying to modify it, especially newbies. It works just the way it is so why try to reinvent the wheel. The thing you have to watch for when reinventing the wheel is that you don't get run over by it! THE END ** *** ** LB 59 """"```--~~~~~~~~~--```'""'''
Re: Re: SOL on unsecured CC debt. Use it at your peril. There are some things in there not well grounded in fact, as I pointed out. I'm not going to be the one to get nailed. There has been a lot of discussion about this. The main things are don't admit to the debt and do something you're not comfortable with. I would personally never send that crap, as I am not prepared for what could happen. One of the problems is that when the CRAs see this same thing word for word they know what is going on. Make it be your own words, something you can live with.
