This has potential to be a long story but I'll keep it brief. I started getting collection letters 4/14/06 for a treatment center I had paid. I dv'd the notice within a few days of recieving it, instead of validating, the collection letters just kept on coming no vd, heck they didn't even have an account rep sign off on it. I kept demanding dv 5/8 and 5/24 I sent a cease and desist. This time I recieved a poorly written letter from an account rep stating that she had DV'd it and just because I dispute the debt doesn't mean I don't owe it and stated that it was "on my credit report and due and oweing" this time it was signed by a real person but the manager approval line was not signed. I checked my report and sure enough, not only did they place an unauthorized inquiry with a phony address identifying me but the debt was reported under a different CA with only a po box address. Mind you the CA on the report that has placed the debt in collections I haven't recieved one notice from them about this alleged debt. Well I did a reverse address lookup and it appears that there are three collection agencies operating under one address and phone number, when I checked the state Dept of licensing the company that has the debt reported has no license in the DOL database the only licensee is the company that is currently trying to collect. I started writing my letter to TransUnion made copies of all the collection letters, my responses, proof of mailing and a copy of the yellow pages showing that this CA's address is the same company that has placed an unlawful inquiry on me. Upon cruising the states DOL I also found a record of disciplinary actions on the licensed company. I am currently composing my letter to TransUnion with my mailing reciepts, responses and the colllection letters clearly not validating but now I also have a record of disciplinary actions and proof (a printout of superpages)that the creditor that has placed me in collections is the same company that has put a regular inquiry on my credit report. Which proves that the information given to Transunion is corrupt. What is my next step? Please advise before I ship the letter off.
Are you saying they put an address on your CR that they claim is your address that was never your address?
That is correct they used a bad address to pull an inquiry. Let me show you what I have for transunion it explains the situation in detail Dear Sir/Madame: This letter is a formal complaint that you are reporting inaccurate and incomplete credit information. I am distressed that you have included the below information in my credit profile and have failed to maintain reasonable procedures in your operations to assure maximum possible accuracy in the credit reports you publish. Credit reporting laws ensure that bureaus report only 100% accurate credit information. Every step must be taken to assure the information reported is completely accurate and correct. I feel compelled to inform you that the companies I am complaining about are corrupt, illegitimate and opening your company to many potential lawsuits, penalties and fines outlined by the FDCPA, FTC under the FCRA. The following information has been illegally obtained and incorrectly reported, I respectfully request to be provided proof that these inquiries were in fact authorized with an instrument bearing my signature for legitimate business purposes. Failing that, the unauthorized inquiry must be deleted from the report as soon as possible:Unauthorized Inquiry Credit Corp XXX Eastmont Avenue Suite XXX Anywhere USA, XXXX Unauthorized Inquiry: The FCRA states that the only permissible purpose for pulling someone's credit report is a) firm offer of credit b) insurance c) employment or d) a court order. Credit Corp has unlawfully gained access to my credit report after failing to validate debt after four requests. The listed inquiry was without authorization, and for no legitimate business purposes. As such, it is a very serious error in reporting. Please delete this misleading information, and block Credit Corp from gaining future access to my credit history and supply a corrected credit profile to all creditors who have received a copy within the last 6 months. The identifying information listed is incorrect XXXXX SE. XX TH AV., #P Anywhere USA, XXXX This inquiry should have never been granted. Credit Corp account# XXXXX XXXEastmont Avenue Suite XXX Anywhere USA, XXXX Phone: (XXX) 555-8000 and CreditCollection Service Inc account# XXXX PO BOX XXX Anywhere USA, XXXX this address listed on my credit report is inaccurate and an obvious front the correct address and phone number for this company is: CReditCollection Service Inc XXXXEastmont Avenue Suite XXX Anywhere USA, XXXX Phone: (XXX) 555-8000 Credit Corp and Credit Collection Service are duplicate entries, they share the same address and telephone number found in allpages.com yellow pages (enclosed). I also conducted a query in an effort to validate these debts myself on the State of Anywhere Department Of Licensing database and was unable to find Commercial Collection Service Incâ??s existence in the Anywhere State Department of Licensing database. This gives me the impression that they are either not fully licensed and bonded as required by Anywhere state or they are unlawfully reporting to the credit bureaus under CreditCollection Service Incâ?? and collecting under the guise of Credit Corp. Is Credit Collection Service Inc even licensed to collect? To this date 7/10/06 I have never recieved a collection notice from Credit Collection Service Inc who has reported this account for collections, I have only recieved notifications from Credit Corp who has unlawfully gained access to my credit history by providing false identifying information under false pretenses. Collection Disputed Validation requested: I have made a grand total of four validation requests.Credit Corp has violated my consumer rights as oulined by the FCRA, FDCPA under the FTC. Upon the first collection notice dated 4-14-06, Credit Corp received a written dispute and demand for validation from me. Attached is a copy of these letters along with the letters I recieved in response from the creditor. On 5-8-06 and 5-23-06 I recieved two more collection notices. So I requested validation and verification immediately after recieving these collections again with instructions to cease and desist until they can prove the debt is mine. On 6-12-06 I recieved a personal letter from Credit Corp account representative Daisy Duke admitting that they did indeed receive the multiple requests and states that she did validate the debt twice already (referring to the letters dated 5-8-06 and 5-23-06) and advises that the debt is currently being reported on my credit report regardless of the dispute, evidence supporting my suspicion that Credit Corp and Credit Collection Services Inc are indeed counterparts. As of today, 7-10-06, they have failed to provide documents to validate the following: a document bearing my signature or some other contract, dated proof that the statute of limitations has not expired on this account, breakdown of the debt with explanation or cause as to what it is for; copies of any papers to substantiate the alleged debt; license numbers and registered agent license numbers. (Please note that the Credit Corp documents (enclosed) do not even contain the account representative signature. The letter signed off by representative Daisy Duke, the manager approval line is blank as well.)At this time I feel I must inform you that Credit Corp has been fined for collection violations in the past as a result of failing to provide requested records(enclosed) The FDCPA states they must cease collection activity until they have produced validation of the alleged debt if so requested. As per the FTC, this includes reporting to the credit bureaus, which Credit Corp has obviously done illegally under the fictitious name of Credit Collection Services Inc. It is quite evident that no such proof of this alleged debt exists or they would have provided supporting evidence in the previous 3 months since it was requested. If no proof of debt exists, it may not be reported to the credit reporting bureaus. I can't even validate this debt due to opposing and corrupt information reported and the simple fact that they have illegally provided misinformation to your reporting company in order to unlawfully collect in an attempt to cause me financial hardship. Therefore, I am not asking for an investigation to be done, I am requesting that the entry be deleted in its' entirety as there is no proof of Commercial Collection Services existence, nor is there any compelling documents to support this debt belonging to me as evidenced by my attached documented proof. Additionally, please provide the name, address, and telephone number of each credit grantor or other subscriber. Be advised that the description of the procedure used to determine the accuracy and completeness of the information is hereby requested as well to be provided within 15 days of the completion of your investigation which if conducted is to be completed within 30 days. Sincerely, McEngle
Your letter is too long to get the response you want. You are dealing with near-minimum wage clerks who will place your "dispute" into one of several standard categories, most of which will result in no action. Is the following accurate: You have received collection letters from one CA, and have DV'd them with no result, although they claim they sent it. You have 2 TLs on your reports, one from the above CA, and another from a second CA (apparently at the same address). Has the second CA sent you anything by mail, and have you DV'd the second reporting CA? Is the collection account likely to be yours, is the amount they are collecting accurate, or is there any way you can even tell? What is the new address that has appeared? Is there any issue of insurance claims or payments?
I know but there's alot of information to provide, the collector that has the tradeline is actually the same entity that has put an illegal regular inquiry on my credit report that is currently trying to collect. They are the same company, one has a license to collect the other does not at least not in the state licensing database. Yes, as soon as I got the notices I sent dv request with dispute certified with signature confirmation each instructing them to cease and desist until they validate correctly, after the third request, I recieved a very poorly written letter here it is: I RECIEVED YOUR LETTER TODAY. DID YOU KNOW I HAVE RECIEVED THIS SAME LETTER NOW 3 TIMES? I HAVE SENT YOU VALIDATION TWICE ALREADY. SE DING THESE LETTERS, DOES NOT EXCUSE YOUR BILL. YOU HAVE YET TO SEND EVEN A PAYMENT ON THIS. THIS IS ON YOUR CREDIT REPORT, AND DUE AND OWEING. IF YOU WOULD LIKE, YOU CAN MAKE PAYMENTS. CALL ME WITH ANY QUESTIONS. SINCERELY, XXXXX manager approval line (no signature)note the letter d is missing because the rep whited it out and didn't retype it. No, I have not recieved a stitch of paperwork from the agency that has reported the debt, if I had, I would've disputed the debt and requested a dv. The only information listed is a name of a company and a balance. I recognize the company name it is a treatment center back in 2001 I attended some classes there, but it was a pay as you go deal, they wouldn't let you in unless you paid. The identifying information is not my address, the tradelines have the exact address but only a po box# in my credit report. not that I know of, as I stated the only info the current creditor has provided is a balance, a company name and a balance owed with interest, and threats to pay. No other info provided. I hope this clarifies everything, thank you for responding ontrack, you rock!!
Then take a look at your situation and you can see how this is likely to play out. You have an OC that has sent you to a CA on a debt you do not owe that you paid at the time the service was provided. You have a CA that cannot even competently send you validation to your address provided with your dispute. You have them operating under 2 names, damaging your credit with each entry. They have likely sent your "validation", such as it is, to whatever other address has shown up on your reports, or they may be collecting erroneously on someone else's account who lived at that address. To resolve this, you must be willing to put pressure on both the CA(s) and the OC. You may need to both file complaints with BBB and local DA, as well as be willing to take them to small claims court. You are not likely to resolve this thru CRA complaints, unless you get the OC's agreement to retract the account, or a judgement against them. What proof of payment at time of service do you have? Checks? CC statements? What proof of any "debt" could they likely have? How much money is involved? Did their course offering say payment was required on the day of the course? Did you sign something saying you were signing up for some complete series of courses, or did they provide something indicating that payment must be made at the time of the course? Does their BBB report show similar complaints? Did they offer their program thru some other institution, that may have had other complaints about their practices? Are they required to be licensed by any state regulatory agencies?
As it stands I have no issues with the OC they are alleging that I owe 283.25, unfortunately I have no records of the OC, it's dated to 2001 but I have always paid in cash or check at the time of service (bank account has been closed for five years) I have to wonder if the SOL is almost up? Can't be sure of what sort of account it is. Yet I do not want to pay this collector. They have violated about every single credit law and I fully intend on complaining to the AG, the FTC and BBB. If they would just verify I would likely pay it. Instead they are trying to muscle me and I do not appreciate it. Now I'm involved on principle alone. I am hoping is that they are doing an inquiry to take me to court, I have every single notice, reciepts of mailing and the new dirt including violations and fines with the state DOL concerning this CA. I just figure TranUnion would want to know if they are being misled.
If you had paid by check, you could pull records from the bank, even though the account was closed. Do you have your check register? Did the OC even have any mechanism to track courses attended without payment? Or are they claiming this is a bounced check? If they are attempting to collect with interest, on what basis are they claiming you agreed to even payment of interest, if you were not admitted without paying up front? That implies an agreement that you signed including those interest terms. At this point you don't even know if this is your account. Although you think it is since you had used the services of this OC, without validation, you don't even know if they have mixed up your account with someone elses. Their use of some bogus address implies there is likely a mixup in their records. Your having used their services just makes it possible that that mixup could result in a debt erroneously assigned to you. Push on your FDCPA validation rights, in writing, CRRR. Send a reply to the CA in response to their claim that they have sent you "validation", indicating that despite their claim, you have not received any validation at all from them, and that they have both continued to collect and reported on your credit report without sending any validation, both of which are violations of FDCPA. Simultaneously, send a complaint to BBB, including copies of your letters, and their replies. Indicate that they have repeatedly ignored your requests for validation, are falsely claiming to have sent it, and have failed to mark the account in dispute. You might make a similar complaint to your state AG. This will not by itself resolve your dispute, but it might shake loose whatever validation they claim to have, possibly getting it sent to your actual address if it had been sent to the bogus address. You can then see if it is complete enough to determine if it is even legitimate, if it is likely to be erroneous, charges for services you never agreed to, or someone else's bill, etc. If they are bluffing, you are also calling their bluff, should their whole claim be erroneous and they later want to claim they just made a mistake for which they should have no liability. Responding to your request for validation WAS their opportunity to deal with the possibility they were collecting erroneously. They claim they sent it, well, then they can make sure you get it. If they now claim they can't get anything, or they send something just printed out on their own printer, they are caught. Make sure you have requested validation (in writing, CRRR) from the CA that you are in contact with, as well as the other name showing on your reports.
Thank you for the sound advice, I'm not quite sure if they'll be able to do anything at the bank, I used to bank with US Bank and I was pretty disappointed with their service, but it's worth a shot. I really have to guess that my paperwork with the OC is just a number on a ledger somewhere, they keep terrible records, otherwise the debt would be dv'd. What is the deal with BBB? I've gotten mixed reviews, I hear they don't really do anything but I'll give it a shot. What about an Estopple?
I would not expect a BBB complaint to directly solve any problem unless the company you are disputing with has customer service as a high priority already. They typically forward the complaint, pass back any reply, and note on their reports how many complaints they have gotten on a company, what type of complaints they were, and whether they were resolved. In particular, BBB notes whether the company replied, and failure to reply to disputes is the main reason they grade a company an "F". What other BBB complaints show on their report? What BBB complaints show on the OC report? It can be useful, however, to force the matter to be handled by someone else other than the party that is messing it up, if the company directs their BBB complaints to, say, a higher level manager, officer, or owner. For the company, it is an opportunity to resolve issues before they involve regulatory agencies or litigation, if they choose to use it that way. It also starts a publicly visible record of the sorts of problems a company is causing. If there are a large number of unresolved complaints, particularly involving fraud, that can become visible to regulatory agencies or other attorneys who may have only had a couple complaints themselves. You are clearly dealing with one person who is not going to send you the validation you have requested, or is so incompetent they are sending it repeatedly to the wrong address, even though you have presumably included your address in your dispute. You are at an impass, and short of proceeding to court with no knowledge of what this is about, it is to your advantage to force them to tip their hand so you know how hard to push, and as quickly as possible to limit your damage. BBB is one way, since you will be adding the social pressure and embarassment of a publicly visible complaint with contact from someone other than you following up. If this person really believes they have sent validation, they will be real pissed, and might send a copy of validation thru BBB, saying "See, I've already sent this twice, and the deadbeat still claims I haven't." You may also raise problems between whatever employee you are dealing with and an owner or manager, since you are basically saying they are incompetent. You are using human nature, just as CAs do. But you have raised the possibility of another approach, particularly if they are required to be licensed in your state. File a complaint with the state agency responsible for their license. They do not want their license revoked, and that usually requires that they comply with both state and federal law, and respond to state agency inquiries. In addition, inquiries from state licensing boards usually go to a high level employee. State complaints are typically not publicly visible, however, unless some action is taken. Do both, BBB for public visibility, and state licensing agency, for legal effect. The debt collection game is unbalanced and assymetrical, giving the debt collector cheap access to smear consumers' reputations and affect their finances, while limiting liability for doing so. You need to use the procedures outlined in FCRA and FDCPA to give yourself legal standing, as well as choose venues where the balance tips your way.
"Estopple", from what I have read, is a term or tactic usually misused in advice on web sites. The case law usually deals with situations far from debt collection. If what you want is for them to "put up or shut up", it is my understanding that can be accomplished by getting the case into court, either under FCRA or FDCPA, using discovery to force disclosure of whatever evidence the other party claims to have, getting the judge to reject any "evidence" based on hear-say, where the other party has no direct knowledge, and if no acceptable evidence can be produced of the debt, getting a decision to that effect. (I am not an attorney, and I have no experience in court.) There is another direction to look at, however. You say that in the normal course of business with this company, payment was always required before services were rendered. In effect, this was a cash sale. Did they routinely provide any form of a cash receipt, or send any statement or bill showing payment was made, and for what it was made? Did they provide any bill claiming any amount was due, around the time the expenses were incurred? In other words, viewed from the point of view of what systems they had in place to verify payment and that their employees were collecting and correctly forwarding such payment, did they have in place the accounting and cash tracking systems that businesses normally use to ensure correct payments and crediting of accounts, and in a manner that their customers would also have verification of payment, as protection from their errors?
