As many of you already believe I am a troll, I do believe I make a valid point here no matter what your opinion of me. It is up to you to take my words as well-heeded advice or as troll gibberish. After reading many of the threads since many of the vets and regulars left, I am sorely disappointed in most of the replies to those seeking advice on this board. Giving ill-informed, inaccurate, misleading, and incomplete advice is far worse than giving no advice at all. It is in the best interest of all but a couple of posters on this board to make use of the search function whether asking or giving advice. As the current moderator has fixed many of the problems that prevented quick searches, there is now no excuse for not utilizing the search mechanism on this board. Instead of giving your opinion or just your personal experience regarding a person's question, most of you should be, at the very least, instructing new posters to read the Faqs page located at the top of all the threads or if you are in a particularly helpful mood, searching for a meaningful thread to give a link to for the poster. Giving guesses and conjecture may not only hinder a person's credit repair, but in a worse case scenario, cost a person thousands of dollars in interest fees and denials of credit lines. Someone bumped the Lizardking lawsuit thread and commented that most people here did not have the cajones to do what he did. But on the contrary, many of the "newer" vets made quick work of their credit repair because they made constant use of their search function and learned from all the experiences of those who came before them. As Butch said, most of the vets learned true trial and error. However, many newer vets did not have to undergo the "bloody noses" Butch spoke of, because they learned and studied from the mistakes of others. In summary, as someone recently said, 99% of everything that can be experienced during credit repair has already been asked and solved on this board. By using the search function, a person not only learns the answer to their question, but gains the knowledge to answer questions not related to their own particular situations. This is the true meaning of the CreditNet community--The ability to help, answer, and give advice to questions that no longer or never did apply to the respondant for the sake of providing useful information to the poster. The easiest way to do this is by being well-versed on the basics located in the faqs page, knowing the FCRA, FDCPA, and knowing what has worked for the hundreds of people who have come and gone throughout the entire history of this board. The only way a person can learn this information is by researching and reading the informative, boring and useless threads alike only found by regularly investigating those who had come, seen and conquered in the past of Creditnet history. If you have not done this, it is in the best interest of those you wish to help to keep your incomplete, inaccurate, misinformed opinions/advice to yourself until you are 100% sure that you know that you know that you are right. Peace.
Question-so who determines what is useful or not? Most people give advice on situations that they have already experienced. Does anyone know everything there is to know? I don't think so. It is truly through trial, error and experience that we learn. As I've said before, I don't think anybody hands out advice all "willy nilly" trying to mess people up anymore than they already are. And if someone gives out bad advice and another person knows this may be wrong, that other person can step in and correct the mistake. I'm sure even the way a "vet" handled a situation maybe two years ago has been improved upon with better ways to approach that particular situation. Credit issues are always changing and evolving with new problems that pop up that maybe no one has experienced. Not everything fits in the box. So you say we are the blind leading the blind? Well, we work with what we have and, hopefully, one day we'll all see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Many people post for many reasons, but probably the most common is to share a frustration with individuals who are caring and actually understand. Yes many are looking for advise that goes beyond what you find in the faq's, or a word of encouragement that they are on the right track. Telling someone simply to read the top threads, read the faq's and that will give you the answers is far less than what most are looking for. People share and learn from one another, but most importantly they get support. A kind word for someone who is ready to give up, or worse go postal, is sometimes what is really needed. Some of the "vets" were, IMHO, getting the worst about this. Anyone with less than 100 posts or here for only a few months was bluntly told to "Read the faq's, lurk for a few more months and then ask an intelligent question and we might answer you". This hurts the entire board. Less people are willing to post for fear of being either placed in the "Newbie I won't answer" catagory or worse "Troll I'll get" catagory. Often even a true vet learns something new, or thinks of a better way to have done something simply by talking about it for the 100th time. The same way professors and teachers seem to learn something from each class they teach. I believe the more questions asked, the more answers given the more we all learn. Sure some of the advice will be less than perfect but face it, the credit system itself is less than perfect. Sometimes that off the wall answer while in itself is not right, has a kernel of information that when put together with other bits becomes a great idea. Just my two bits, for what it's worth.
Very well said! I have noticed that along with the large exodus, many newcomers joined on. Could it be coincidence? Or could it be they are no longer intimidated by the thought of possibly asking a question deemed not worthy of answering in the past?
I think this is a good thread. I guess I opened it expecting to read a couple of trollish throwaway lines, but instead I found some very thought-provoking criticisms. I think WhiteKnight's comments should be considered -- if you really don't know the answer, it's best not to post your best guess as if it was a fact. That said, though, we should cut everybody some slack here -- sometimes I and others post something we initially thought was a fact but later discovered wasn't true at all! Contradicting someone without contempt is an excellent skill to learn. So, for example: WRONG: "That's just wrong. How can you post such jibberish. This is like the blind leading the blind. You are a fool." RIGHT: "Hmm, I don't think that's right. Have you considered this {etc.} and this {etc.}? Let me know your thoughts." Doc
Exactly. I find in life that the delivery is often far more important than the content being delivered...
Vegasheat, You may well have a point regarding the aloof/paranoid attitude sometimes shown an inquisitive newbie. I guess though, if you'd been watching and/or participating over the last few months, you might think a little differently about it. Something along the lines of, "you're not paranoid if they really are out to get you." One of the commonalities that I find whenever I see someone post their success story here at CN is that before they asked their first question, before they sent in their first dispute, they read. They Searched and they read. They read and read and read. They got the foundation of knowledge in place from the readily available resources. That FAQ board wasn't always there you know, but even before then, it still wasn't all that hard to find the basic info. That's how I started, and I dare say most anyone who has had any serious success here started similarly. I still run searches anytime I have a question, because it has probably already been answered several times. Why clutter the board? I think that when someone who has been here a while and gotten their scars the hard way, sees someone posting just really basic questions, you tend to not take them seriously. They don't take their own job at hand seriously, as evidenced by not having done any basic research, so why should we? They're looking for a "magic pill" to fix their credit without doing any work. OR at least that's how it appears to some of us who've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. The very best advice you can give any newbie is, "Get serious. Do your homework. Research your particular issues. Then ask your questions." Absent that basic foundation, the answers will be meaningless to them anyway... That said, as Doc has already pointed out, it can and should all be done in a civil, respectful manner.
In light of the fact that Whiteknight already posted his "leaving the building" message with parting words about how this place will suck since certain "vets" left, I wonder why he found it so compelling to again come back to tell us this place is a case of "blind leading the blind". I still think he's a troll. That said, I have yet to see any "misleading information" given out. If he can prove otherwise, then he should feel free to post proof and in his infinite knowledge teach us the right way to go. I will say however, that he has a point about doing research, but then again, haven't there been several instances where people would post links to previous threads discussing the issues in question? Isn't that "research"? And what's wrong in people answering questions based on their experiences? Whiteknight's motives are suspect to me. Could it be that he's actually "disappointed" that this board is actually still very much operating as usual despite the fact that these "vets" left? Could it be a case of sour grapes?
IMHO, based on solid fact ... I have been trying like hell to find answers by using CN's search function ... 90% of the time it just doesn't work!!! I have tried all the tricks ... "Use the search @ the top" ... "Don't use AOL" ... "Do this, Do that." For what ever reason(s) or excuses the search function is "user challenged" ... I don't think anybody should be giving lectures to "newbies" on how to post to this board until the "crutch" is fixed!!! No doubt the problem needs to be rectified ... I'm tired of hearing how CN is "free, so put up with it" ... Perhaps it's time to take donations or better yet ... begin charging a small monthly fee. Not only would this fix the problems, but as an added benefit ... it would help keep out trolls. (The same reasoning applies when you pay a cover charge to walk through the door of a business ... They aren't trying to rip anyone off ... They are simply establishing respect by setting a price. The theory works in that, those who have a vested interest will respect the establishment and the people within.)
Moving Onward and Upward . . . We could all spend valuable time venting over the departures, however, that will not help us improve our credit. What's done is done. Let's move forward. The board is rebuilding itself and needs everyone's help and positive imput. Those of us that have been reading the threads for a few months should help the newbies as much as possible and point them to the important threads. Granted, its slow - but you can get some valuable information. We all want to aim for the 700's and higher. We can't get there with negative, wasted energy.
Re: Moving Onward and Upward . . . Yeah, it's slow. So what? It's always been slow. But it's there, and if you give it enough time, it eventually comes up with results. But I was referring to more than just the search function. Everyone who wants to be able to ask an intelligent question, and understand the answers they get, really needs to do their homework. Read the FCRA and FDCPA (they are free downloads). Don't know where to find them? Then you haven't read the FAQ thread at the top of the forum. Just basic homework stuff. I'm not lecturing so much as telling you what I did and what I have seen bring success for so many others here. Why reinvent the wheel? Do the homework.
Re: Moving Onward and Upward . . . I should have mentioned my reply (above) was mostly intended for whitenight or those who subscribe to "his/her" opinion regarding "newbies performing searches" or newbies posting "newbie" questions. (To whom this may concern) So it's understood ... My venting is in no way a result of any recent "happenings" here @ CN ... Nor would my venting ever be meant to be taken "personal" ... Admittedly though, there is some frustration over searches not going through, thus resulting in the board being less efficient & less effective. Please don't make more out of something until certain assumptions are verified as fact ... If need be, my email is available and all are welcome to drop me a line anytime.
Re: Moving Onward and Upward . . . Wildbill we're all in this ride together. Don't know about you, but I am tired of being in credit purgatory. Want to buy a home and new car in the next 18 months. I am hoping creditnet helps me get there - and I in turn can help someone else.
Re: Moving Onward and Upward . . . Jtrain, I feel much the same way ... Also, looking to get a set of wheels soon myself!
Re: Moving Onward and Upward . . . You can do it. My credit went from FUGLY in August of 2001 to buying a $300K house with a no down, stated income loan 14 months later. Over 75 derogs disappeared from the CR's of The Lovely Mrs. Quixote and myself.
Re: Moving Onward and Upward . . . If I could go from paying 18% for my auto loan to 4.5% with a prime lender as of last month, and also refinancing my home loan for 5% interest (thereby saving almost $18,000 over the next 3 years)...you can do it too. I achieved my credit utopia over a period of 8 months... and who knows, you could probably be there faster depending on how much work you put into it.
Most people who end up here are driven to a point. Otherwise they would not be here in the first place They would be paying lexington Flaw systems to get them into more trouble LOL I think most all have the same questions. What do I do How do I do it. Can I do it. Will it work How long will it take. Of course the standard answer is read the FAQ etc.. However for many the BBS is new deal and I wonder how many post and expect a reply pronto .. Thats all part of the learning curve.. But the new folks in the end provide the most fodder .. Just like college needs grade schools creditnet needs the new folks... I teach networking and routers and stuff and some of the hardest questions I have to answer comes for the new folks not the old hacks.
Why won't my Pix firewall let me segment traffic via VPN to different subnet's with my Sonicwall on the front end while doing RADIUS authentication on the inside.... via IAS? Oops sorry... wrong forum....
also some of the most idiotic also ( grin) Sonic wall now there is dumb name for a firewall. But all the beeps for the false alerts I guess it makes sense lol sonic ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or relating to audible sound: a sonic wave. 2. Having a speed approaching or being that of sound in air, about 1,220 kilometers (760 miles) per hour at sea level. 3. Slang Extremely exciting and fast-paced: a sonic lifestyle. wall : 1. An upright structure of masonry, wood, plaster, or other building material serving to enclose, divide, or protect an area, especially a vertical construction forming an inner partition or exterior siding of a building. 2. A continuous structure of masonry or other material forming a rampart and built for defensive purposes. Often used in the plural. 3. A structure of stonework, cement, or other material built to retain a flow of water. 4a. Something resembling a wall in appearance, function, or construction, as the exterior surface of a body organ or part: the abdominal wall. b. Something resembling a wall in impenetrability or strength: a wall of silence; a wall of fog. c. An extreme or desperate condition or position, such as defeat or ruin: driven to the wall by poverty. 5. Sports The vertical surface of an ocean wave in surfing.
