I went to small claims court in September. I brought to court a number of related documents (originals, not copies) to show the judge if needed, never thinking that the judge would take the originals. During the hearing, the judge asked to see several of the documents which I then handed to her. At the completion of the hearing, the judge said that she was keeping the originals in the court file and that I could get copies from the clerk. The clerk has refused to return my original documents and will only provide me with a copy of the original. The documents in question are my original HUD settlement statement, original bank note, original Deed of Trust, original Trans Union credit report, and original Experian credit report. Does anyone know if a judge is allowed to confiscate your original documents during a hearing? If I had wanted these documents filed as part of the court record I would have filed them myself and had them stamped and dated by the clerk. The judge is essentially saying that she is allowed to keep (at her discretion) anything I present to her as evidence during the trial and that I can never again retain possession of the original document because it now belongs to the court.
No, I am paraphrasing what her actions are saying to me. I handed her my original documents because she asked to see them, and then I never got them back. This tells me that the judge feels that she is allowed to keep anything I show her as evidence in my case and make it an official part of the case record. Once an original document becomes part of the case record, the clerk will not return my original document and will only provide me with a copy of the original. I believe the judge's exact words were something like "I'm going to keep these documents in your case file and you can get copies of any of these documents from the clerk."
WHAT ?!?! Shaking head. Has she made a decision in your case? No they cannot keep your docs. But they can retain them until a decision is reached. .
Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! It was a default judgment on the spot and in my favor because the defendant failed to show. The judge signed the judgment in front of me and THEN said she was keeping my documents. I had never seen a judge do that before. This particular judge was very skeptical of my case and made me prove everything even though the defendant failed to appear. She didn't think that I could submit FTC opinion letters as evidence and thought that I had to have actual damages in order to pursue a non-permissible purpose inquiry case (until I convinced her otherwise). I can only surmise that she wanted to discuss my case after-the-fact with the other judges on the SC circuit and kept my documents for that purpose. How would you suggest that I go about trying to get my originals back from the court? The clerk has already refused to give them back.
Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! This is just my opinion but, I think those documents are your property. What in the world would give this judge the idea she could keep them? You may want to consult with an attorney near you, who is familiar with your courts. They may be able to shed some light on this.
Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! This is just my opinion but, I think those documents are your property. What in the world would give this judge the idea she could keep them? You may want to consult with an attorney near you, who is familiar with your courts. They may be able to shed some light on this.
Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! FILE ON HER!!!!!!!!!!!!! $1,000 OR RELEASE THE ORIGINALS--->MAKE ALL THE COPIES YOU WANT!!! THE ORIGINALS ARE PERSONAL PROPERTY!!! GO OVER HER HEAD (IF NECESSARY)
Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! After presenting your docs, it's considered evidence and once presented it must stay with the court. Since you did not file copies, the judge was correct to keep what you gave her as evidence. She would not return to you to make copies or to file on account the chain of evidence would then be broken. You could have asked for a stay, and filed copies of the docs yourself, but that would mean another court date to reenter the evidence and resolve your case giving the defendent the opportunity to appear. It's probably less expensive to get certified copies that are on record with the court rather than consult/retain an attorney. Chalk this up as a lesson learned and next time do not enter any evidence/information that you haven't already filed with the clerk's office or made copies of. Good Luck.
Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! SO..."IF" you entered your DRIVERS LICENSE into "EVIDENCE" (for some reason)...they would get to keep that too??? JUST DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT!!!! TAKE A NOTARY TO THE COURT AND HAVE HIM/HER CONFIRM AND SWEAR THAT HE/SHE MADE COPIES AND RETURNED THE ORIGINALS TO THE OWNER AND THE COPIES ARE THEN PLACED IN THE FILE...
This is the downside to small claims court. The Court may keep original evidence if it deems it necessary. Many courts require evidence to be submitted in its original form. Some do not. The problem with small claims court is that the rules of court and rules of civil procedure are relaxed. You can't submit evidence under seal like you could in District or Superior court. Keep pestering the judge's clerk to swap out copies for originals. They might eventually give in.
Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! "SO..."IF" you entered your DRIVERS LICENSE into "EVIDENCE" (for some reason)...they would get to keep that too???" Correct. That's why you make copies and take them with you or file them with the clerk's office prior to the court date. The issue here is about the chain of evidence. Once it's presented it can't be broken or it becomes tainted and the whole court process starts over again. Greenvan should have given copies of the original docs to the Judge and carried the originals with her in case the Judge wanted to see them. The originals most likely are stored away in an evidenciary room somewhere, not necessarily at the same location the clerk is. Clerk will only be able to print copies from an image file that was made by scanning the original docs. Trying to get the original docs back that were entered as evidence is futile. They are now the property of the court and nothing short of a subpoena will let you get at them.
Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! It'll be tough to get them back, but I wouldn't necessarily say the efforts are futile. Some courts will allow you to come back and pick up your exhibits. I've had a judge's clerk call my office and ask me to come get my demonstratives (large, blown up exhibits) that were left with the court. Sometimes they just want the extra space. If it hasn't been too long since your hearing, greenvan, I'd keep calling the judge's clerk to see if you can either get your originals back or, at the very least, have them placed under seal.
Re: Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! Why would the "chain of evidence" have anything to do with it after the judge has made her deciscion?
Re: Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! I WOULD GO "UP THE LADDER" THEFT OF PERSONAL PROPERTY IS ILLEGAL!!!
Re: Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! The case is OVER...it is time to GIVE IT BACK!!! (OR THE JUDGE CAN PAY FOR REPLACEMENT DOCCUMENTS TO BE ISSUED)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! Well, what is the time limit for filing an appeal? And after that time has elapsed, what would be the excuse for keeping the documents then?
Re: Re: Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! I'd say theft is a bit of a stretch here wouldn' you?? Greenvan turned the docs over. She/He should have been familiar with courtroom procedure before doing so.
Re: Re: Re: Re: The judge stole my documents! An not just an appeal. The docs are considered physical evidence. If they were returned to Greenvan the evidence has the potential of being tainted. Docs can be changed, revised, etc. As a result, the defendent has an opportunity to have the default judgement (in this case) overthrown.
