Thieves living it up on my vacation

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by cinderella, Jul 12, 2003.

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  1. cinderella

    cinderella Well-Known Member

    We were on the second day of our two week trip and went out to dinner. The waiter told us our card was DECLINED, BOFA Platinum, which was a surpsrise to us because it seems like we had about $9k of available credit.

    We called BOFA the next morning, and it turns out someone had placed two orders for about $7k in internet charges using our card number, a place called CANON EAST. BOFA froze the account when the orders were first placed, suspicious activity. About three days later, the same online company tried to run another charge through for about $3k,

    BOFA said they would FEDEX a new card, but someone **messed** up, because we didn't get the card until about 10 days later....long story.

    I **think** it might be related to an employee at expedia.com. It was definetely someone who knew our CC#, knew we would be on vacation, and knew our home address. Within 36 hours of our trip, the charges came up and our home address was the ship to address. It seems someone who had access to this information sold/gave it over to this phony internet company to dink our cc, collect from BOFA, and, we would not have known anything if BOFA hadn't froze the account, until we returned home.

    DH and I hardly brought any $$ with us on our trip, we planned on using the BOFA for most of our purchases, we thought it would be the safest...HA HA HA. I was lucky I brought my two other cc's from my subprime hell days, Cap1 and Orchard (which I almost cancelled last month), which all had zero balances. Cap1 gave me a whopping increase from $600 to $900. I really couldn't access my savings for cash because as a security feature, I have them completely separated from my checking accounts, only DH can do withdrawals from savings....IN PERSON at our branch. I only keep enough in my checking for bills and have dh do personal withdrawals from saving into checkings once or twice a month.

    I was lucky I had paid for the hotels in advance. But, I didn't count on HAWAIIAN AIRLINES stranding us on Oahu, with No Notice they had stopped service to American Samoa. Dh and I managed to get a vacation rental on the North Shore, but had to convince the managers we were good for the money since our BOFA cc was in limbo.

    On the upside, United bumped us into first class on the way home:)))
     
  2. too much

    too much Banned

    So the crafty thief shipped the stuff (or tried to ship the stuff) to your home? And you think it was an Expedia.com employee?

    Sounds like someone in your house, or your neighbor, was to blame. It's a pretty common thing.
     
  3. cinderella

    cinderella Well-Known Member

    Maybe I didn't explain it enough, but I don't think there was anything to ship!

    The online store really isn't an online store as you might you think it to be. Rather, just a set-up to look like an online store, to collect the $ from the CC company. Who cares if nothing arrives at my house in a week, the merchant (thief) would have collected almost $10K from BOFA had they not stopped the charges, and by the time I got around to complain, they would be long gone. In any case, my available credit was used up untill BOFA credited my account back for the pending charges, which took about 8 days and 10 to recieve the new CC.

    I have my reasons for Expedia.com......like I said I **think** it is an employee within Expedia.com selling the information out. But I definetely believe it is an employee working for an employer within the travel industry selling out the info. crooks, in this case one who ran a bogus "E" stores. If BOFA hadn't frozen my account, they would have been out $10k in fraudulent charges, because by the time I got home from my trip, the "online" store would have already collected.

    We'll see, I am keeping up with BOFA's investigation into this one.
     
  4. SoParkDiva

    SoParkDiva Well-Known Member

    One of my relatives owns a major franchise store. He has excellent credit but he had to jump through hoops to get the setup to accept credit cards from consumers. Do you think it's that easy for a "employee" at whatever.com to set up a bogus e store ready to steal credit card numbers and submit request for payment to Bofa in, like, 1 day?

    Even if that employee sold your number to another bogus e-store - it still makes no sense. It sure sounds like someone close to you made online purchases at a legitimate e-store using your card number
     
  5. galabar

    galabar Banned

    I've just started using the Citibank "Virtual Account Number" program. If you have a Citibank card, you can download the utility that allows you to create a new account number for each purchase (or individual acount numbers for each merchant that you deal with). You can also specify a limit for each account number (you can see how much of it has been used on-line).

    My wife and I have started using only "virtual" account numbers for internet purchases (and specifying a limit of whatever the purchase is +$1).
     
  6. GEORGE

    GEORGE Well-Known Member

    KINDA' A STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION TO THINK IT WAS AN "INSIDE JOB" AT EXPEDIA...

    You have NEVER used the card ever before at any business???
     
  7. GEORGE

    GEORGE Well-Known Member

    NEVER...I REPEAT...NEVER GO ON VACATION WITH-OUT A BACK-UP CARD...even if it is a card that only has a limit of $1,000!!!
     
  8. cinderella

    cinderella Well-Known Member

    BTW Geoge, thanks to you and another cnetter, I did have some backup credit on my trip. I almost canceled my Orchard last month, but decided not to based on you and another Cnetter's posts. The night before my vacation, I activated my new Orchard bank card that I had received about a month earlier after my first was lost.

    I use my card all the time, both online and off. But I have pretty much ruled out most other businesses. Here is why:

    1) The fraudulent purchases used my home addy as the ship to address
    a) this would bypass the most basic security of online purchases with your CC. Making the billing address/ship to address the same as your CC billing/ship to address. Most purchases online paid with CC's have to match up to your CC address on file. Different ship to addy's and CC addy's are usually a red flag for online purchases. Especially at over $3k a pop.
    b) When does a merchant EVER receive your home address? Almost never, except for online purchases.

    -----> the thief not only had my CC# but my home address, this rules out most retail merchants ...leaving only online retailers who knew both the CC# and home address.

    2) the purchases occured within about 30 hours of the start of my two week vacation, perfect timing to get away with it.
    a) I check my cc purchases every few days online while at home, but not on VACATION. Other than you guys, who really would check their cc purchases while on vacation? If you were going to steal, this would be the opportune time to do it, as most people are not going to be checking the CC statements out online while on vacation. By the time they figure it out when they return home, the $$ has already been credited to the merchant.
    b) This was no piddly amount they went for, they went for it all. Greed will get you every time, they probably could of got away with it for dinking me somewhere under $1k, but OH NO, they wanted the full nubby, all $10k of it. They did three separate transactions for over $3k each, until they realized they hit my limit. Dinking a CC for $10k is a lot of money, these guys weren't going to be around 30 days later when BOFA came looking for them. They were going for all or nothing.

    3) Why do I know this isn't my family/friends/neighbors
    a) My in-laws moved in with me several years ago. Everyone knows this. They rarely leave the house, they are there every day to "snag" the mail before me (usually to hide their exorbitant phone bill). Really, the mail is their "big thing" of the day. No way would somebody be mail snagging at my house, my MIL is there every day to greet our mail carrier.
    b) Nobody but the merchant stood to benefit from the "purchase." Using my address as the ship to address, just like everything else, my in-laws would be there to pick it up. Really, everyone in my neighborhood, all my family, and friends know my in-laws live with me and dh and rarely leave the house. Assuming there was a "product" actually being delivered to our house, (which there wasn't) the in-laws would have been there.
    c) anyone who knows me also knows I am hopeless lover of animals, I always have someone checking in a few times a day on my cat and dog when I am away (I love my in-laws, but I don't trust them with my "kids.") So the idea of an empty vacant house just waiting for a thief that knows me to come and snag a package (even though nothing would have shipped) at an empty house while dh and I are away is shot, my house is NEVER EMPTY!

    4) This is an unknown "E" store.
    a) Nothing comes up on a search on the net
    b) Nobody I talk to recognizes this store

    5) Nobody stood to benefit but the merchant

    6) Why Expedia
    a)Nothing 100% solid, just some arrows leading to there, there really are only a few companies that I have dealt with that knew certain information---->
    but I am pretty sure it was an employee within a company that had access to certain information and relayed it over outside of the company to the thief with the bogus "E" store.
    I understand that there are security measures to be taken for a merchant to do business with the major CC companies, VISA-AMEX--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER. But really, is anything 100% safety proof? A clever thief can figure out a way to bypass these precautions. And just as soon as the major CC's are figuring ways out to combat this type of fraud, there is always an entrepreneurial thief waiting in the shadows calculating a new way to circumvent these measures.
     
  9. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    Cinderella,

    I not only sympathize with your experience, I think you did us a great service by telling us your story.
    You also gave an excellent explanation of the security issues involved.

    Some of the comments questioning your story were absolutely unbelievable. Either the posters were out of their minds (hopefully, the insanity will prove to be temporary) or they were so intent on maintaining their presence on Creditnet that they didn't think before they posted.
     
  10. SoParkDiva

    SoParkDiva Well-Known Member

    Heeeyyyyy!! :mad:
    I thought I was your friend? =)
     
  11. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    Diva,

    Sorry, you are my friend, but I thought some of the responses were excessively skeptical and thoughtless at the same time. Skepticism doesn't work very well unless it's logical and well-informed.

    The reference to insanity was a bit excessive, and also not serious; it was a "you better smile when you say that" remark.
    :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

    We do see a lot of hasty and careless remarks with no purpose other than to maintain a presence on the board. I don't think you do that, and I'll try to avoid doing it myself.
     
  12. SoParkDiva

    SoParkDiva Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Thieves living it up on my vacation

    That was nice of you Rich Guy =)
     
  13. willgator

    willgator Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Thieves living it up on my vacation

    ahhhhhhhhhhhh
     
  14. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    Please note exhibit A above....
     
  15. willgator

    willgator Well-Known Member

    .................................///////////////
     
  16. too much

    too much Banned


    How exactly would you have suffered a loss here? There is no way YOU would have lost anything. Not a chance. If you didn't make the charge, you wouldn't have to pay the bill. What part of that don't you understand?

    All you did was ruin your vacation and waste your time trying to protect BoA from eating the loss. You never would have had to pay for that charge, regardless of when you discovered it.

    Congratulations on doing BoA's work for them. Keep up the good work...I'm sure they appreciate it.

    Notice how not one of the "experts" here bothered to tell you that you had no obligation to ever pay the fraudulent charges? All they did was congratulate you for doing BoA's job for them.
     
  17. too much

    too much Banned


    Yes, we certainly don't want to question stupidity, do we?

    Ooooh, I might have to pay $7,000 in charges that I didn't make. Ooooh, I have no recourse if my card is used without my permission. I guess I just have to pay the bill.

    Wow.
     
  18. RichGuy

    RichGuy Well-Known Member

    Too Much,


    You have no idea what you're talking about. Cinderella was NOT stupid and DOESN'T intend to pay fraudulent charges.

    There were suggestions that her own family was responsible, and those, while not blatantly stupid like your remarks, were not based on the facts and were not particularly sensitive to a fraud victim. That's why I couldn't believe that intelligent people made them.

    You, on the other hand, can say anything at all and surprise no one. Your signature makes any post meaningless.

    Only a few troll huggers want you to come here. Everyone else hates you for what you are.
     
  19. too much

    too much Banned

    Re: Re: Thieves living it up on my vacation

    So, you're saying that the original poster was correct in spending their own time trying to track this situation down?

    I think it's amusing that you could "hate" a stranger. I believe it speaks volumes about your personality.

    If you took the time to understand the point I was making, you might not "hate" me for my writings.

    Only a complete fool worries about fradulent charges. BoA WANTS you to worry about them... after all, THEY are on the hook for them, not you.

    Most posters here just aren't smart enough to understand that they are slaves to the banks. They pay them interest, do the bank's research, and even worry about the bank's problems. The banks love you. They love that you believe that credit is a "way of life."

    Brilliant. Keep up the good work.
     
  20. Hedwig

    Hedwig Well-Known Member

    Never did Cinderella say that she thought she'd have to pay the charges.

    She was thousands of miles away from home and couldn't use her card. When she called B of A they told her about the charges. She wanted to not only get them off to free her credit limit, she wanted to make sure no more went on while she was trying to enjoy herself. I don't see how that was doing B of A's work for them. If you have knowledge that helps them catch someone conducting fraudulent activities or keep them from conducting such future activities, you have an obligation to say so. To do otherwise is to enable the thieves.

    I would think that we all know we don't have liability, but that isn't the only issue--preventing fraudulent activity is. Are you saying that if you saw someone robbing your neighbor, you wouldn't tell the police because you would be "doing their job for them?"
     
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