To Bill Bauer

Discussion in 'Credit Talk' started by Tuit, Apr 25, 2001.

  1. Tuit

    Tuit Well-Known Member

    Regarding the validation letters on the other 2 debts I sent about the same validation request to the atty in NY they ignored me sent my file to the Tulsa Law Group who have ignored all three requests (Began asking for validation from Tulsa Group in Feb 02) Maybe my attorney is right and they are not required to send me validation. Doesn't seem right.
    It seems to me that they probably will just serve me like this other attorney did and perhaps I should send one last one using the one on the board what do I have to lose if I'm going to be served anyway. Maybe the judge will take pity on me and demand that they validate the debt before he will give them a judgement. What do you think?
     
  2. Bill Bauer

    Bill Bauer Guest

    Plead insanity

    Mabye the judge will take pity on you for sending out all those validation letters without having the foggiest idea what they are for or how to use them,

    I don't mean that as a putdown, Just a way of saying that people should not just whip out a trusty old letter and fire it off without understanding what it is for, how to use it, what is purpose is and what you can expect back and what to do with what you do or don't get back.

    Under any and almost all circumstances, only one validation letter should ever need to be sent to any collection agency.

    I've seen people on this and other boards crying about unscrupulous collection agencies who wouldn't even accept their certifieds anymore because they had been spammed with the same sophistry and bilge gas so many times.

    And if they go off with somebody's validation letter copied off of some message board and start shooting them off like paper airplanes, until the sky caves in on them, they really don't have much to complain about.

    There is also a lot of talk on this board about how one should head right down to the court house and sue over every little issue. See below what can happen when people do too much of that.

    Most people haven't heard or don't remember LeRoy Schweitzer or the Freeman bunch up in Montana. Although Schweitzer was never connected to the Freemen bunch because Schweitzer, Darrel Freck, and several more whose names I can no longer remember had already been sentenced to Federal prison and are still there doing time long before the Freeman bunch came into the public eye. I know or know about all these people and the scams they pulled.

    Just read the story of what can happen if you go shooting off lawsuits like fireworks on the 4th of July.

    Readiness Group:

    Beware of the so-called "redemption process" being taught by legal amateurs in "common-law" law schools around the country. This approach lands people in jail. See the Akron, Ohio report below as an instance. This was roughly the scheme used by Leroy Schweitzer and the the Montana Freemen,though their basis for writing fraudulent checks was different (with a hint of truth behind it).
    __________________________________

    Published Tuesday, April 24, 2001, in the Akron Beacon Journal, at:

    http://www.ohio.com/bj/news/pageone/docs/009452.htm

    Ex-Stark pair's sentences cut Lehmans, guilty of harassing public officials, must help inquiry into Akron common law movement
    BY JOHN HIGGINS
    Beacon Journal staff writer

    CANTON: A former Stark County couple will serve days in jail instead of years in prison for harassing public officials. But they must tell prosecutors all they know about the Akron-area organization they say taught them how to file false criminal charges, phony tax forms and bizarre commercial law pleadings.

    Visiting Judge Richard M. Markus sentenced Sandra L. Lehman and her estranged husband, Ellis Lehman, to probation plus 60 and 30 days,respectively, in Stark County Jail.

    Both pleaded guilty last month to 18 counts of intimidating public officials -- third-degree felonies carrying a five-year maximum penalty. A condition of the Lehmans' probation is that they cooperate``aggressively''in any future investigation and testify in court, if necessary.

    Prosecutors were unavailable to comment on possible cases associated with the Lehmans.

    Markus, however, peppered Sandra Lehman with questions about an organization called Right Way L.A.W. (Learn And Win) and received some answers special Prosecutor Jonathan E. Rosenbaum said he was hearing for the first time.

    The organization is among the main proponents -- through seminars,books and instructional tapes -- of a ``legal'' theory that has landed believers in jail from Ohio to Idaho.

    True believers and plain old-fashioned con men have applied the theory
    -- a gross misinterpretation of U.S. commerce laws -- to everything from car-buying schemes to the harassment of public officials.

    ``I was told how to do everything by Right Way L.A.W.,'' said Sandra Lehman, 45, whose sentiment toward the group has soured. ``Everybody who has ever dealt with Right Way L.A.W. has the same opinion I do.''

    She faces two years in a state penitentiary if she does not cooperate fully with prosecutors and the state's crime lab.

    ``That's the only reason she's not in prison,'' said her attorney,
    Thomas Adgate. ``(Prosecutors) are looking for the bigger fish.''

    Markus ordered that the couple take voice stress analysis tests, which are similar to a lie detector, although prosecutors admit that Ellis Lehman, 47,was not the main instigator.

    Before Sandra Lehman serves her 60 days, she must retrieve some 4,000 documents she has in Arizona, where she has kept an address since her separation from her husband following their indictment last year.

    Ted Almay, superintendent of the state Bureau of Criminal
    Identification and Investigation, said from his office he could not comment on whether prosecutors have Right Way L.A.W. lined up in their sights.

    ``We are not done with our investigation in your part of the state,''
    said Almay. ``It's really challenging to keep up on (the common law movement).
    That's why we want the documents Sandra Lehman has.''

    The Lehmans have filed self-styled legal papers with the courts for years, but the case that landed them in court as defendants emerged from frustration over losing their daughter to a boyfriend they didn't like.

    Sandra Lehman claimed that the boyfriend assaulted her, and when local authorities refused to prosecute, she struck back with a barrage of paperwork.

    Right Way L.A.W. showed her how, she said yesterday.

    Nobody from Right Way L.A.W. could be reached for comment last night.

    Although the organization is based in the Akron area, regular Right Way study group meetings are conducted in Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Alabama, New Mexico, Nevada, California and Washington, according to promotional materials.

    Membership does not come cheap. New members pay $150 and receive discounts on written materials and cassette tapes, which can cost as much as $115.

    That's not counting seminars like the one Sandra Lehman attended in Reno, Nev., in 1998 at the casino/hotel Circus Circus. She testified yesterday that the conference cost her $200 to $300 plus airfare.

    For their money, Right Way's followers -- Sandra Lehman estimated membership at about 5,000 around the country -- learn a process called
    ``redemption.''

    Right Way L.A.W. is not the sole proprietor of the ``redemption theory,''which has roots in the 1980s common law movements in Montana and elsewhere,and has since spread with several variations, experts say.

    The idea is based on a belief that the Uniform Commercial Code, which regulates business transactions, actually governs everything in the United States, including criminal and traffic proceedings.

    By learning how to manipulate the code, a citizen can gain access to his U.S. Treasury account containing hundreds of thousands of dollars and increase his balance by converting everything from a speeding ticket to an indictment into cash.

    The more adventurous believers may write checks off these imaginary accounts and attempt to buy things, such as Cadillacs in Cleveland or mortgages in Idaho.

    Almay said the Lehmans were the first in Ohio to use the process to intimidate public officials.

    ``This is the first time we've seen the redemption movement operate on this level,'' he said.

    The state's crime lab began investigating the Lehmans about two years ago at the request of Stark County Prosecutor Robert D. Horowitz, Almay said.

    He said it was a difficult case because investigators didn't want to trample on the Lehmans' First Amendment rights. Instead, they looked for and found criminal intent behind the Lehmans' actions.

    ``This can really wreak havoc with our whole justice system,'' Almay said.``It's something we take seriously.''

    Markus agreed, and told the Lehmans he expected their complete cooperation if they want to avoid prison.

    ``The people involved in this activity are sick,'' Markus said. ``They are ruthless, they are ignorant, they are saying things that are ridiculously false.''

    John Higgins can be reached at 330-478-6000 (Ext. 12) or
    1-800-478-5445 or
    jhiggins@thebeaconjournal.com
     
  3. lbrown59

    lbrown59 Well-Known Member

    Re: Plead insanity

    To Bill Bauer
    Author: TML (65-100-12-69.p3.oregonfast.net)
    Date: 04-25-01 20:42

    Regarding the validation letters on the other 2 debts I sent about the same validation request to the atty in NY they ignored me sent my file to the Tulsa Law Group who have ignored all three requests (Began asking for validation from Tulsa Group in Feb 02) Maybe my attorney is right and they are not required to send me validation. Doesn't seem right.
    It seems to me that they probably will just serve me like this other attorney did and perhaps I should send one last one using the one on the board what do I have to lose if I'm going to be served anyway. Maybe the judge will take pity on me and demand that they validate the debt before he will give them a judgement. What do you think?

    ----------------------
    Reply To Message===They will have to prove it in cout . All validation is is demand that they prove it to you now.
     

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