July 5th...I (well, hubby's report) disputed 2 tradelines. July 23 (or there abouts...I don't have my file in front of me) I received a notice from TU saying they received my dispute and it was sent to the regional office. They requested "additional information". The form consisted of Full Name, Signature and SSN. The other page they sent me had the full name and SSN on it. I responded by saying that according to their own paperwork that THEY SENT ME, they already have this information (I did not provide a signature). In the letter, I also reminded them that they had 30 days (from the stamped date on their paperwork-7/8) to investigate. As of Friday (8/9), they had neither updated nor deleted on the credit report. I overnighted a letter reminding them that they need to delete. When I checked the report this morning, there was not change. So, today, I mailed a letter again demanding that they delete as per the FCRA...blah, blah, blah. When I checked my mail later, they had sent me the same EXACT form that they sent me a few weeks ago (looking for name, signature and ssn) and my letter I sent on Friday. The form letter says to fill out the form and return it with all enclosures. So, now what??? Should I wait to see how they respond to the letter I sent out today? Should I respond to this letter (which did not come with delivery confirmation, by the way)? Intent to sue??? Thanks for any suggestions!!! G
I did not send the signature because many members here told me not to. Where does it say that a CRA must have a signature in order to dispute? If you dispute online (as most of us here have), do you have to send a signature? G
Please make a link to a member making that statement. This is a hoot. You're just being unreasonable, and I think that's what a court would say. They don't require it online because you could be traced through the email domain. I wouldn't want my credit file dinked with if I didn't communicate my authorization-- and that's exactly what's happening here. You're not the consumer. Does he know about this? "A consumer reporting agency shall require, as a condition of making the disclosures required under section 1681g of this title, that the consumer furnish proper identification." -- U.S. Congress http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/1681h.html I suppose you can argue that definition all day-- and whether it applies to disputes, specifically. Tell it to the judge. Here's this member's recommendation: Send the signature. It is reasonable. Do you accept that?
G. Fisher I don't think she is being unreasonable at all. The FCRA does not specifically state the word 'signature', and it leaves room open for argument for what kind of identification is required. Not only that but it's so obvious they are trying to just buy time and give her problems. They KNOW who she is. Also dude, you are totally wrong about the online tracing. I work in a large corp and have many computers available to me. There is no way they could find me by 'email'. Maybe IP etc, but even then it has nothing to do with my email address. That's why you have to check those little boxes stating you agree to the conditions. THATS what replaces your signature.
Greg, Geesch, you don't have to be rude about it!! Glad you are finding my credit journey a "hoot"! I apologize for not making a link for you. I tried and it did not work and I am unsure how to do it. I believe the title was TU Dispute...please help or something like that if you are so inclined to search for it. However the members who advised me NOT to sign were mindcrime2, GEORGE and jrjr35. I think that others would agree with these members. TU was provided TWICE with all the information they needed to begin this dispute (and yes, my husband knows I am doing this....I am just doing the legwork, he is with me all the way!!!). I do argee with you on one point. I do think the courts would say, "So, why did you not just provide a signature?" HOWEVER, I think they would ask this only because it is a logical question and NOT a legal one. This was disputed online. Why should they have more time to investigate just because they had to shuffle this through different departments? They provided me with the information that they needed!!!
Gillian, I think the advice you are referring to regarding the signature was in dealing with CA's and validation letters, OC's and verification -- not CRA's. I sign correspondence with the CRA's and routinely send with a copy of my driver's license as well -- I don't want any red-tape delays usually when dealing with them. Whether it's legally required or not, I don't know. Seems like a reasonable request to me so I've never chosen to battle it. CRA's via the FCRA are supposed to protect your privacy and the confidentiality of your information. The reason for not signing with the others was the nature of the request of the CA's and OC's and the potential for abuse of your signature -- the CRA's couldn't really abuse it as they aren't the ones with the documentation, just the database. Sassy
Well, I'm part of the don't sign anything camp. Just as I'm in the get it in writing camp. lol I've been burned by a CRA, just like I've been burned by a CA. Why sign? What does it prove? Have you tried calling a middle manager at least and asking them why they need all this additional info? I've never been asked for crap for a dispute (knock on wood). G. Fisher: You are way rude. She has very valid reasons for not wanting to sign, i.e. she has read that some members say not to. If you need a link to a post telling her not to sign you can use any of mine.
You know, Gillian, I believe Christine at Bayhouse has a suit pending, preparing suit, a suit in some stage LOL for something similar, not specifically a signature but the identification requirements -- seems like it was a social security number that set her over the edge. Sassy
Sassy, I know, for obvious reasons, not to sign anything going to a CA....that was why I specifically asked about signing something going to a CRA (in my first post about this a few weeks ago). While I DON'T think it is terribly unreasonable to provide a signature for them, what I object to is that just because they sent an online dispute to another department, they expect more time to dispute. It was already a few weeks into the 30 days when they first sent the request for name, ssn and signature (and the paper alreday had name and ssn on it). I think if they had contacted me a DAY or TWO after the dispute began, it would have been different. In any case....thanks for your thoughts. I will check out Bayhouse and see what I can find!! rblues, Thanks for your post. I think I will call today and see what the story is. Maybe I can get somewhere on the phone. It has already been over the 30 days, but I will keep trying!! Thanks!!! G
Dude, I'm sure I've got it wrong about email, technically, but isn't that what we're talking about? So, since you da man on IT, give us the latest on electronic signatures, and, of course, how the credit reporting agencies can get away with delivering ENTIRE CREDIT REPORTS OVER THE WEB. On the other hand, if they can't trace anybody, how can they justify taking diputes online? Gillian, still waitin' on that link. Show your work. Back up your statements. Provide evidence, and all that. I'm interested in this civil disobedience/anarchy attitude to which you allude. At least provide the name of the thread ("I believe...?"). If you display that kind of vaguery in court, you'll lose. Here's the bottom line: If the dispute was made and the time is up, the question is: Can you prove the dispute was made? No. Ask IT man about that. All the rest of of it is moaning and groaning. But maybe Dude can help you dig through the computer records and prove that you made the dispute over 30 days ago. Go to it. Perhaps, then, you won't need a signature. Have fun. That's what you want, right? To sue them to prove the point that they acted in bad faith, right? Go get 'em. You go, Girl! The 30 days is here, and that means court, tomorrow! Haw, haw-- still a hoot. You got suckered by the bureau with their doofy Online Dispute business. Be smarter than them-- stop falling for their tricks.
Greg, I am not going to engage in a big argument with you. It is not worth the negative energy for me. I asked a question and you answered. I will take your advice for what it is worth. I come to this board to get all kinds of different opinions and you have provided one of them for me. Thank you for giving your time to my post. Have a nice day. G
Gillian, I disputed a few TL's on my husbands reports--I did it online--and 2 weeks later I got a letter from them saying that they needed BOTH our signatures, and SSN's. I have no idea why they needed both, but I asked here was told to send them. I eventually did, and that's when the 30day clock started. It was all very strange how it happened, but it turned out ok. Of course, just because it turned out ok once, doesn't mean it will again. When the dipute was over, I got a big envelope from TU with a computer printout of both of our reports. Not an actual report, just a printout. Very strange!!
"I do argee with you on one point. I do think the courts would say, "So, why did you not just provide a signature?" HOWEVER, I think they would ask this only because it is a logical question and NOT a legal one." -- Gillian INCORRECT. They have a legal obligation to protect the data. You must submit to their definition-- there can't be a separate set of rules for each consumer made by the consumer. But, again, if they can deliver the report without it, why can't they accept the dispute without it? And what did the web site say about the dispute process? Did it make a disclaimer about signatures, or did it dupe you into thinking the clock started when you hit ENTER? You should challenge that discrepancy. In the meantime, if you want the corrections made, the clock starts when they get the signature. You're not in charge yet. So, what's your plan goal? Change the system, or get the correction?
Iâ??m with G, I donâ??t think this board was originally intended for back-and-forths with rude, obnoxious, know-it-alls who are only here to promote themselves and defend the CRAâ??s. However, I will answer your questions regarding electronic signatures since you asked (and Iâ??m going to accept your questions as a desire to learn rather than a desire to be offensive, sarcastic, and belittling). Regarding the verification through email, you brought it up, not I. So what were you talking about? eMails are required by the CRAs to email your log in link and send report updates, not really anything else. If I wanted to go to some mail.com site and anonymously register to provide an anonymous email, I could. There is no way to track me with that. Regarding your question: â??On the other hand, if they can't trace anybody, how can they justify taking disputes online?â? Well, you can dispute things over the phone. So how do they obtain your signature over the phone? Iâ??ve been able to order and dispute over the phone without any follow-up request for a signature. Regarding your question: â??If the dispute was made and the time is up, the question is: Can you prove the dispute was made? No. Ask IT man about that. All the rest of of it is moaning and groaning.â? Well Mr. obnoxious man, it depends. By mail:CRR (green cards) by phone: record the call if itâ??s legal in your state, by computer itâ??s the easiest-take your pick: make a screen print of the CRAâ??s response to your dispute(includes date etc), or print their dispute status of your report. Itâ??s obvious Mr. Fisher that you do not have online experience with CRAs. And, if you read below regarding electronic signatures, it WILL stand up in court. Regarding electronic signatures: This is a huge topic, and I donâ??t have the time, inclination, or patience to help you understand all about it, so I will just state a few relevant basics. A definition: (2) ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE- The term `electronic signature' means information or data in electronic form, attached to or logically associated with an electronic record, and executed or adopted by a person or an electronic agent of a person, with the intent to sign a contract, agreement, or record. "Electronic Signatures In Global and National Commerce Act" "This Act ensures that transactions executed using electronic signatures are considered as good as ones with the written signature not only within the United States, but all over the world. Virtually all of us will be affected by this Act if we use computers and transact electronically. Before this Act, several US states had their own laws relating to digital signatures and these varied from state to state. This Act preempts state law and provides a uniform basis for practice. The key impact is that you can be electronically accepting an agreement when you transact on the web, and unlike the past that agreement is now legally enforceable against you." Now, so that I can tie all this in for you, the following is verbiage from Experians web site that must be completed before services are given. There are radio buttons that must be selected next to the â??agreeâ?? and â??disagreeâ?? text that replaces your signature: â??CONSENT TO OBTAIN YOUR CREDIT REPORT You understand that by clicking on the "AGREE" button immediately following this notice, you are providing "written instructions" to Experian under the Fair Credit Reporting Act authorizing Experian to obtain and provide you with your personal credit report and score. 1. Do you consent to give us access to your credit information? Agree Disagree 2. Please confirm your authorization for Experian to obtain and provide you with your credit report and score. Agree Disagreeâ? Equifax has similar verbiage and processes. So your acknowledgement by selecting a radio button in combination with your SSN, name, address, and birthday is what is used as a replacement for a hand-written signature as prescribed by law. Also, for many of us (I had to do this) subscribing to an online credit reporting service often fails during the enrollment with a given response that the CRA is unable to identify who you are, and that you must call in to complete the enrollment. I was able to subscribe only after I gave the above info over the phone. So if I can get to my credit reports and FICO by making a phone call, then certainly Gillianâ??s proof of dispute can be given over the phone. Mr. Fisher, my advice to you is to not make so many assumptions before stating what you believe is fact. But rather do some research. Believe it or not you arenâ??t all-knowledgeable on everything about credit. In addition, I would recommend that you take a personal communication class so that you are able to communicate with people showing respect and patience. Oh, and lose the laughing: â??haw hawâ?¦â? you sound and look like a donkey. Gillian, I have NEVER given my signature and any CRA has NEVER asked me for it. I have a very common name and get other consumers information on my report at least once a year-which I dispute in a manner of different ways. So why wouldnâ??t they ask me for mine? They have my home phone and can verify everything else about me. I would tell them to give me a call and ask if I sent the dispute. â?¦Oh wait, they wonâ??t do that-it doesnâ??t buy them the added week of timeâ?¦ ;-)
