validation and right to collect

bump

 

I would think based on your statement, that the full cease and desist letter would be what you send. They would have to give it back to original creditor and thus stop reporting it. Of course this may have the unwanted result of the creditor filing a complaint to collect on the checks.

Anyone else have any ideas?
Tuit

 

I may be way off base here, but I think just the fact that you rendered a check in return for services in itself is a sort of contract. As far as can they report it, I have no idea if it is legal for that to be reported or not, but would tend to believe it is.

The only thing I can suggest is to go read the
Fair Credit Reporting Act and see if it says anything about bad checks there.

 

Here is how I handled a returned check a coulpe of times.

When the store notified me of a returned check I just issued a duplicate check and mailed it to them.

This way I got it cleared up and did not have to pay a returned check fee.

 

I hear what you are saying and would like to figure this one out too. I know with other types of debt it depends on what was in the agreement that you signed to obtain the credit. Bounced checks would be a whole different breed I would think. I tend to agree with you, that I would not ever pay a third party CA since I would not be sure I would get the original check back. You would need to know who has that document! Further since there is no actual contract/agreement for this unpaid debt there cannot be any assignment agreement, right? I have been fortunate to never have this problem so I just don't know what the answer would be. For me I would send the Cease and Desist Letter to the CA and then try to deal with the original holder of the bad check. I would add an endorsement making it clear that upon payment the negative notation would be removed from credit reports and that the original check would be returned with say 5 days of payment. Of course I would first have their agreement to these terms in writing before I paid them. The very least I would note on the check is that it is "Void if Rights Reserved" if they don't honor their end of the agreement.

I am probably all wet here, but that is what I would do! Either they want their money or they don't, I just don't see how they can assign an agreement if there never was one indicating you agreed to it.

Maybe someone else can shed some light on this.
Tuit

 

Who did you write the check to? Can you get them to get it back so you can pay them directly?

Has the collection agency (you said they hated you) violated the FDCPA? IF so, you could try to bully the original creditor to take it back or hold them liable for the FDCPA violations of the ca.

Why do they hate you?
Have you asked for validation? The letter contains issues other than the debt being yours.

It deals with the issue of whether or not they are legal in your state... whether satisfaction or insurance has been paid.. you get the idea.

I'd also modify a letter (after you call the original creditor) trying for a validation.

In other words, get the nicer of the 2 (and it sounds like the original creditor can't report it to your reports) so if you can get it back there I'd do that... or bully them both into deletion for payment. But I agree, I'd want the original check before I'd pay...

Have you had any fraud issues with your checks? if so, you can bring up the idea of it possibly being fraud and you want to verify the debt...

You get the idea. Be a pain.

 

OK, with SCAN and Telecheck, there is a contract. They guarantee the checks that they approve. So if a merchant uses SCAN's services, when you write a check to a merchant, the merchant runs it through SCAN, and SCAN says, "this person does not write bad checks, it's okay to accept this" - the merchant accepts your check. But, then it bounces. The merchant turns the bad check over to SCAN, SCAN pays the merchant the money, and then starts trying to collect from you.

With other collection agencies, I don't know.

 

I don't know where you wrote the checks, but, usually they have signs stating that they use SCAN etc. at the registers or front door. It basically states that they will accept your check if you agree to their terms. I've never looked at the terms or requested them, however, they probably state something about third party collection. Just a thought

 

I will not make good on a check unless the original payee presents me with the orginal check and then only if every thing is in order.

 

So you are never aware of any problem with a check before it goes to collections Correct?

 

I know who has the Orig.Check.Me or it don't get paid.

No 5 days check first then payment only.

If you don't get the check back it can keep biting you back:

 

I have seen those sticker type signs and don't remember them saying by cashing my check I am agreeing to their terms but of course I have never paid enough attention to them to actually read what's written on them. AT any rate it seems to me to be a one sided agreement if they are not going to provide you with a copy, so how can it be valid?

My understanding is if I write a check, I am telling the merchant that I have the funds to cover it and the merchant understands that I have funds to cover it and my bank will pay him. So I can see I have entered into an agreement with the merchant.

Seems to me that the merchant would have to retrieve the original unpaid check from his agent and return it to you if he wants to get paid.

If you agree to work with his collector you are agreeing to assignment where you had not before.

I would send a full Cease and Desist to the CA and only work with the person/business that I wrote the check to. I feel that they can not hold you to an implied agreement if you had no idea what was contained in it. What if it says you will pay 30% interest for each month the check is uncollected?

I think this is a sticky wicket, most businesses or banks frown on third party checks, ie I make a check out to you, you in turn want to endorse it over say another business who probably won't take it most businesses have notices posted (no third party checks accepted) and so will refuse to cash it. So there has to be something to that.

It is not my job to hunt down the check and so I would look to the original payee to hand over the original check in exchange for payment.

So what I am trying to get out is that the if the original payee has given the check to his CA then he needs to have it returned so he can hand it back to you for payment. If his collection agent paid him for the bad check then that is an agreement between him and his CA and he would have to take care of this arrangement on his own. Since I was not made aware of entering into any third party agreement at the time I presented the check I would not be bound by it.

The way I see it when I write a check, I have made an agreement with the merchant that I have enough funds to pay for my purchase otherwise, they will charge me a returned check fee, and I also know I have an agreement with my bank that if one of my checks is presented to them and I don't have enough funds to cover it, they will return the unpaid check to its presenter and charge me a large fee as well. In writing a check I agree to these rules because I know of them before hand, I do not agree and will not be bound by unforseen agreements made between the merchant and his agent.

So at the very least a person in this situation would want to take steps to protect himself, since paying this type of debt would not necessarily make it go away if you did not get your originial check back.

Just my penny's worth on this, cause I still don't have an answer and am not clear how this type of debt could be sold to a third party with a right of assignment imposed on the maker of the check.

Tuit

 

I used to be a collector on returned checks, but my input only relates to the laws of the State of Nevada to '95.
EXAMPLE:
A check you wrote was returned for NSF, refer to maker, closed, ect., the check was given to me to collect. I had to establish an account for you and notify you in writing. All records of my attempts to collect MUST BE computerized AND manually noted on a special file pack. In that file pack I had to enclose all letters I mailed and the check draft was in it. Let's say I never was able to collect, I had the right to assign it to a collection agency who would report it to the CRA's. Our contract and the laws of the state indicated that once assigned, our company could not have further communications with the debtor. Any attempts to pay us would be forwarded to the collection agency. An attempt to validate with our company would be answered by us as the original "creditor." After responding to the debtor, we would forward all contacts and copies to the CA. Anything the CA did, we would be notified monthly on a progress report they would send us.

 

Very good post Tuit.