I recieved the validation back from the State of Maryland Central Collection Unit for an alleged debt owed to University of Maryland. The validation was completely filled out except for the portion that requests the amount paid if debt was purchased. This is blank. I assume then the debt was not purchased but assigned. Alsothey attached a copy of MD State Law regarding debt collection. They also sent a computer printout of a bill from the University of Maryland as well as a copy of University of Maryland's procedure for delinquent accounts. On the bottom of the validation they wrote "If you need to dispute charges contact University College at 301-985-7404". Now I need to know how to proceed. I don't think this is proper validation because they have not provided me with any signature of mine agreeing to be responsible for this debt, Just a computer printout. Also, I shouldn't need to dispute with University of Maryland because they are not reporting it to the credit bureaus Central Collection Unit is reporting it so they are responsible. Also they signed this report on March 7 however as of March 5, they were not reporting it as disputed. I am really scared because this is a 8,000 dollar bill that I should not be responsible for becuase University of Maryland said the classes would automatically be cancelled once classes begin if they don't receive payment. So why should I pay because they neglected to cancel the classes? Please help..Important. I am about to go to the next step but I need to know what will be most effective.
I know someone out there can help me. Please somebody take a shot at this one. I am ready to move on the estoppel but I would like some further insight on this matter first. And I just checked the report they are not listing it as in dispute. Doesn't this constitute collection activity?
Student loans issued directly by a university (rather than a non-affiliated student loan provider like PHEAA) are probably the toughest things to dispute as "not mine" for a simple reason: The university can demonstrate beyond doubt that you were enrolled, took classes, and applied for monetary aid. Moreover, if pressed, they'll come up with the signed documents. It looks like the University of Maryland has provided ample proof of the debt's validity, and it looks like that they'll stick by their story. Universities rarely settle; they would rather have their general counsels see you in court. Unfortunately, these arguments regarding their failure to cancel classes probably won't hold much water before a judge. I would say that you will probably need to shift gears on this one. If the loan has defaulted, then you're in an excellent position to rehabilitate the loan per the Department of Education and have all negatives erased. Keep us posted as this develops! Doc
Is it safe to say no one has any further insights on this matter? I really do need your help. However, I will go it alone if need be. Can you at least tell me if the estoppel is the same as validation #2. Also I performed a serach for any letters that might help me with the wording for my letter informing them of their violation. Not reporting as in dipute,hence participating in further collection activity. Can't find that either. If it's not too much trouble can one of you guys point me in the right direction regarding this. Thnx.
You need to be careful with this. For an amount such as this, you are in danger of being sued or at least having your income garnished and tax refunds taken. If I were you, I'd switch gears as Doc said because a judgement will kill you.
Estoppel is different than the second validation letter. Basically, the second validation letter is an attempt to build a bullet-proof paper trail that would demonstrate to a judge (usually in small claims) that you have given the alleged creditor every opportunity to provide validation. That second letter is not "required" per se, but sure looks good in court. (In other words, it shows that you weren't trying to railroad a creditor by holding them to a difficult timeline.) Estoppel, on the other hand, refers to an time-worn legal concept whose full name is the "Doctrine of Estoppel." Essentially, with estoppel, you are reminding them that they cannot allege something that is not supported -- in the case of a debt, they can't report a tradeline for which they have no proof. Sure, you could try estoppel at this point, but the university would surely contend that they have in fact provided proof of the debt, negating the application of that doctrine. Doc
Here's the thing Doc. And thanks for your replies everyone I can surely use the help. I never applied for a student loan. So they cannot show any documentation with my signature. I simply registered for the course via telephone (ISIS) and at the end of the registration process was told that the classes would be cancelled in (5) business days if they did not recieve payment. I never applied for a student loan to cover the costs of the courses and since they were only giving me (5) business days to come up with the funds I decided to let it go. However, it is my understanding that they never cancelled the classes and I was billed on top of that. So the issue here is: How can they prove I (A) registered for the classes (a computer generated printout is not proof) and (B) Owe them money since I never signed anything like a promissory note etc..
Robin, I'm a little lost now. You registered for the classes, but could not pay the amount by the due date, correct? Most colleges will cancel the classes if not paid by a certain date - usually there is a reinstatement fee. So if you did not attend the classes couldn't you go to the professor that was teaching the class and look at its roll sheet for that semester (don't know how long this has been going on - my guess is a couple years). It would be a simple matter to explain to the university that "hey, I'm not on the roll sheet and I was not graded on my performance for that class. So how come I owe the university money?" Maybe my idea is a little out there, but if you were not assigned to the class how can the university prove you owe them money? Of course, if you were on the roll and you failed the class for not showing up...that's a different story. Dani
Am I missing something? I thought we had already established that a computer generated bill was not proof of anything. This is what they provided. Also, they have absolutely nothing with the exception of the entrance application with my signature on it. No registration forms, no loan documents(because I never applied for anything). So please explain to me how they have ample proof? This really is an inaccurate debt. they rendered no services, I applied for no loans, why do I still owe this money. Isn't this the same as saying if I apply for a credit card and never receive it and obviously never charge anything on it I'm still liable for the annual fee, simply because I applied? Tell me please how this makes sense because I don't get it.
Dani, This dates back to '97 even though the debt was placed with the collection agency in '00. However, this was a distance learning course, so there was no roll sheet, you just submitted your assignments online or by mail and that was that. It was originally set up for members of the military and others who could not attend a traditional school format. I am unable to find out if they kept me on the roll and just gave me an F because of course I can not see the transcript. However, since they made the blanket statement that I would be disenrolled (classes cancelled) within (5) business days if account is not payed, I think that they should stand by that statement. It is unfair and I should think illegal for them to ignore their responsibility (cancel the classes after thy said they would) and still bill me. Note. they did not say it was my responsibility to disenroll myself if I didn't pay.
Wow, interesting scenario, Robin. Well, a computer printout is certainly sufficient evidence that you registered for the class. The FDCPA does not address all instances of computer printouts, lol, and any reasonable courtroom will believe the University of Maryland if they stipulate that you registered for classes. Thanks for clarifying regarding the enrollment... Basically I'm understanding you to say that even though you registered, you naturally presumed that they had cancelled the class per their policy of cancelling if payment wasn't received within those few days. Then you later found out that they didn't cancel the class at all -- which violates their stated policy. If I'm not getting it, let me know (or maybe I should just go back to my corner, lol). Assuming I'm understanding this, then I would suggest that you go with Dani's advice. You have something to clear up with the university's admissions office first. Then, armed with evidence from admissions that you were not properly enrolled, I would approach the university's financial aid office and demonstrate that they basically issued a loan for a class you did not take. I'm also assuming that you received an "F" for the class you didn't realize they expected you to attend, so that provides additional evidence that you didn't realize you owed the debt. Robin, how do you feel about approaching the admissions office first in an effort to clear this up? Doc P.S. By the way, the Department of Education's Ombudsman office may be able to provide some help in troubleshooting this as well. Their toll-free phone number is 1-877-557-2575. I'm positive that they won't be too happy to hear that the University of Maryland is awarding financial aid without notifying students first.
Wow!!! This is definetly a FUBAR. It seem to me their needs to be 2 documents that tey provide. The loan document itself would be one but also, the application for a loan. I'd try Doc's advice first and if no luck, see a lawyer. I think you have a very defensible position. {A} you never applied for a loan that's why no document exist. {B} Maryland violated there on procedures
This is the problem. There never was a loan they never gave me a loan. They simply billed me as best as I can gather as if I were paying out of pocket. I have approached them on this matter when I first heard about the debt from CCU and they basically stuck to their guns and said that I should have formally withdrawn myself from the classes. This is further information that I just found out: When I applied the school automatically processed me for financial aid. However, they never sent me a promissory note because they claimed that their policy is that you cannot get financial aid unless they receive your previous transcripts. I was a transfer student. Now what they are saying is that they sent the funds back to whatever bank issued them because of the above policy and billed me directly. However, I never knew they submitted me for financial aid (loans) I never knew they sent any money back and I never knew the classes were not cancelled. As for grades they refused to give me any information because they say I owe them money. All I know is that I have this bill and I am being stonewalled. should I get an attorney? If so what kind? Also, is there any independant organization that might be able to assist in this matter?
Their bill for the full amount of tuition proves that you did not pay them at all. If this went to court, all you should have to show is: 1. Proof of their policy of cancelling all classes if payment is not received by first day of classes. 2. Proof of their refund policy if classes are cancelled (Usually it's a schedule along the lines of: "cancel by first day = 100% refund, cancel by 3rd day, 75% refund, cancel by 5th day = 50% refund, cancel after first week of classes = 0% refund. In addition, it would be helpful to address the below: 3. If they say that payment was received out of your "student loan" before the monies reverted, and therefore they did not automatically cancel your classes, you just say you're not responsible for their clerical error in applying monies never loaned to you. A letter from the DoE confirming that you did not enter into any student loan agreement would be nice. 4. Ask the college to present proof that you actually participated in the courses you were billed for. It's doubtful that a judge would order you to pay for services not rendered. -ingenue
FYI, applying for a (federal) student loan doesn't mean you automatically have a student loan when they approve you. They send you a summary of your financial aid eligibility (which will include a listing of grants or other free aid, as well as how much you are eligible to borrow. You choose how much to borrow from the monies made available to you. The loan isn't official until you return your signed promissory note. The school cannot enter you into the agreement on your behalf. you wrote: "they never sent me a promissory note because they claimed that their policy is that you cannot get financial aid unless they receive your previous transcripts. I was a transfer student. Now what they are saying is that they sent the funds back to whatever bank issued them" No loan agreement signed by you = No bank would ever issue funds. See if you can find out what bank supposedly sent the school money without your John Hancock. And don't forget to apply the Transitive Property of B...S... to their statement of policy: No transcripts = no financial aid. Loan = financial aid, ergo No transcripts = no loan. -ingenue
I would suggest that you go to troubleshooter.com find the toll free # and call the troubleshooter (Tom Martino). He has a daily radio program that deals with consumer problems and he gets excellent results.
Thanks for all your help with this post. I really feel like this is an unjustified debt and I don't want to pay it. I am scared though because the amount is so much. I think I might need a lawyer for this one. I am going to start by calling the DOE Ombudsman to see if they can help. They are really running me in circles and I need a clear strategy? Anybody wanna help me strategize?(in steps please).
