do you automatically lose your right to validate a debt after 30 days? Is there any point to me trying to validate now, maybe 90 days later?
So what happens if they do not properly validate and it is past he 30 days? Aren't they still obligated to substantiate the debt? I would think so, but I do not see anything to that effect in the FDCRA. Should I go to the original creditor?
True, but in this case it is difficult to tell if the debt is mine due to the extremely vague nature of the collection agency's response. I hesitate to file a lawsuit based on the limited amount of information I have. I am looking for something to reference as leverage to get them to give me more information. I would have responded within the 30 day period, if I was ever notified, but I understand that just saying you were not notified will not stand up in court. I monitor my credit report and disputed it the moment I saw it. All they have given me to this point is the name of the original creditor and a vague breakdown: "$XXX for services and $XXX for equipment". Do I have any other recourse after two validation requests?
"I would have responded within the 30 day period, if I was ever notified, but I understand that just saying you were not notified will not stand up in court. I monitor my credit report and disputed it the moment I saw it. " Why assume this? CAs claim all the time they "notified" debtors. Sometimes they sent letters to an old address, sometimes they are just saying they did, to attempt to deflect your dispute. If you accept their statement as fact, you lose. You were not, in fact, notified, so your 30 day period only began when you were. You, in fact, first found out about this from your credit reports. Furthermore, under FDCPA, not disputing should not be contrued by any court as an admission that the debt is valid. The CA's "defense" is against an FDCPA violation claim for continued collection without validating, but that is irrelevant if they claim to have provided you with some form of validation anyway. You can still dispute based on whether their validation is obtained from the OC, is accurate, or is adequate, or whether their reporting is accurate. Those might still be issues for a court to decide on, regardless of whether they sent you a notice, or you disputed within 30 days or not. If you only choose your position based on whether your opponent might raise a defense, he will never have to do even that. All disputes, or even suits, are part of "negotiation" which may result in a settlement of some sort.
I see what you are saying. I wasn't necessarily making an assumption as much as going off information relayed to me as to what normally happens. You don't happen to know a case I can cite, do you? But that still translates to a lawsuit when I don't even know what this debt is for. I *honestly* don't believe it's mine, but to get into small claims court, attorneys, and even more time will be quite a hassle if I find out it is mine (not to mention looking like an idiot). Seems like there should be a requirement for them to truly substantiate this debt that is dramatically impacting my credit. But it seems court is the only option at this point.
Did you ever have an account with the OC they claim is the source of the debt? If the answer is no, I don't see how this makes you look like an idiot, even if in court they later say it is a different OC and it turns out it is your account. If that is the case, the "validation" they had presented you was erroneous, and clearly not obtained from the OC. Since you may have to look at court as a solution to a debt that is probably not yours, the sooner the better. Stacking up real damages by letting it sit longer will probably not get you more money. More important is conferring with an FDCPA attorney, so you know on what violations to bring suit most effectively, and what documentation with which to build your case, with the best chance of also obtaining attorney fees, which may likely exceed your damage claims. If you obtain some damages, get the account permanently removed, and cover your attorney expenses, count it as a success, particularly if your attorney does most of the filing legwork. What you do now is to position for this result, with the likely outcome so obvious that the other side wants to cut their losses and cave.
Did you ever have an account with the OC they claim is the source of the debt? Draw another card. Based on what they have provided, just ask the OC. They may be able to verify to you that they have no account in your name, whether they provide anything in writing. Then you know your opponent's hand, and can proceed accordingly without being bluffed.
No, I don't think I ever had an account with the OC. Apparently, there have been mergers, so there is another company named in my correspondence as well. But that name is not familar either. Here's the thing: I think this is a cable company. (I don't even have a TV, nor have I for a long time.) When would I have ever signed a contract? I can get a phone line without a contract, so how does that figure into the "burden of proof"? But I can't even find out what address the "service" was provided for. That would be a key piece of info. I don't even know if this collection agency has the right to collect this so-called debt. They have forwarded nothing from the OC. The debt is not too large - only $600. But I can't stand to pay for something just because someone won't give me sufficient information. It's a matter of principal. I appreciate the help.
"The debt is not too large - only $600. But I can't stand to pay for something just because someone won't give me sufficient information. It's a matter of principal." Yes it is a matter of principal. Utility accounts are opened with inadequate identification, and then sold off to CAs on default, all the time. They could care less who they collect from, and might even benefit from not collecting from the original debtor who defaulted. If you choose to pay a bill, it would be because you owed it, not just because they refused to remove it from your reports. There are remedies for that, and they can pay for those remedies. First focus on determining whether the account is yours or not. Then on what to do about it. First you want to know what their hand is, and what your hand is. You can look at how to determine proof or lack of it, later. When was the last time you had a cable account? If you ever had one, determine at what address, with what company, and over what period this was, to see if you can eliminate the possibility that this is even your bill. Then you can look at what pressure to bring. Look at it strongest case first. Your strongest case is if it is not yours.
If they have doubts about either the validity of the debt, or the identification of the debtor, it is to their advantage to deflect or ignore disputes that might result in failing to force payment from whoever they think they are collecting from. No reply is better than "Oops. Sorry." They might hit it lucky if you apply for a mortgage. You didn't "accidentally" have a cable account without knowing you had agreed to the service. Furthermore, if it is past both SOL and the 7 year reporting period, why should you even be wasting your time with these bozos trying to prove anything?
If the CA was acting in "good faith", with some indication they intended to comply with law, and resolve whether or not this is even your debt, we could talk about what is "fair". You have seen no indication of this. To the contrary, based on what you have seen so far, you cannot expect it. Act accordingly.
Excellent advice. I appreciate it. Apparently the date of delinquency is 8/2003, so it's not past the SOL and well within the 7 year reporting limit. I will begin looking into a lawsuit. More research!
Start building your paper trail. All communications should be written, CRRR. All letters should be written with an eye to how they will appear in court to a judge. If it is not your account, start documenting damages. Have any of your other creditors raised their rates? Have you been turned down for credit? Get a written Adverse Action Notice from the lender, request a written mailed copy of your credit reports from the CRAs they said they used in the decision. (If you have been turned down, the CRAs will send you a free copy if you send a copy of your adverse action notice with your request.)
If the alleged delinquency date was 8/2003, you should know whether or not you had any cable service. When companies merge, although the bad debt records might be retained, they could be archived but hard to find. In any case, it is common to sell off any bad debt from a purchased company, dumping it on JDBs for pennies on the dollar. There may be little identifying information sent with the accounts, and if the prior computer systems are not maintained after the merger, it may not be easy for the new company to find old debt information. That is their problem. It is not an acceptable excuse to screw you if you are not the debtor. If you know it isn't your debt, and if they can't even produce the address of service, they are not likely to be able to produce any better records in court, and even if they did, it would just show that it is not your debt. They know how weak their records are. For a $600 debt, that they purchased for pennies on the dollar, what would they do if you sued for damages under FDCPA? Regardless of what they say, start building the case that they are violating FDCPA for collection (reporting) with no validation, for violating FCRA by reporting erroneous negative information, and for liability for damages resulting from their illegal actions that you can document.
Well, I definitely didn't have cable service, but I may have had high speed internet through a cable company. It's hard to tell what "service" they are saying I had. But none of that involved "equipment", and as far as I know, I cleared everything up when I closed the account. To top it off, I do not recognize either of the names of the creditors. This is the only negative mark on my credit. Unfortunately, since I don't have alot of credit to begin with (auto loan, small installment loan), it is a major hit to my score. I have applied for a loan, and was denied. That is what caused me to find this. I will follow up with that company to get the documentation you suggested. Other than that I have an excellent paper trail. I have saved everything from the start including credit reports, letters, and proof of receipt. Other than what you have already suggested, is there anything else you would suggest? Also, I have looked into finding legal counsel, but it all looks a bit steep for a $600 debt. Can you recommend a reputable person/organization? If I haven't already said it a dozen times, thanks again for all the advice.
Wow, I just took another look at the report, and I was mistaken. The date opened was 6/2003. Isn't that suposed to be the date the account was opened? I know for a fact that I had no cable service or high speed internet at that time. Also, the Experian entry lists the CA and the original creditor, while the Equifax entry does not list the CA, only the original creditor. How can that be? It appears that one of them has to be wrong.
Call the OC and ask them if they are showing any defaulted account in your name. You should be able to determine whether this is an id theft case (in which case you file a police report, notify the CA, OC, and CRAs and get the account removed), or whether you are dealing with the CA collecting from the wrong person. If the CA is avoiding providing enough information for you to determine what the account is, it may imply they are not sure themselves that you are the correct debtor, but are hoping you will get in a jam (new mortgage application, for example) and have to pay them. They are playing "chicken". Remove any uncertainty you have on the account, and you will be able to deal with them however you need to.
