Insofar as Fair Isaac has accomplished their objective of frightening some less-than-perceptive people away from "authorized user" account tradelines, a whole new batch of fraudelent ideas have entered the marketplace. I just wanted to take a moment to describe a few and their potential pitfalls. First and foremost, there is a new service touting "borrower" or "individual" tradelines. Some purport to add "joint" tradelines. Assuming this is done for a consumer, that consumer and whoever reports it is actively engaging in some fashion of fraud. This is because this "furnishers" of information are reporting accounts that are over-inflated for the goods purchased and severely backdating the date upon which the "account" was opened. Sadly enough, anyone, anywhere can purchase a reporting subscription to the credit reporting agenices as well as purchase some type of Metro 2 software. Thereafter, they can report anything they wish. However, if a lender were to rely on this patently false information to their detriment, the consumer could face criminal and civil penalties. Moreover, if some of these information traversed state lines, it could be considered a federal offense. In short, don't do this! Secondly, their is a new scam going around wherein companies will obtain a "CPN" number for consumers. This is nothing more than "file segregation" and it is and always has been illegal. Don't do it, it's just like using a different social. Third, companies are popping up left and right proclaiming that you can obtain and use business credit despite terrible personal credit. Not true. Sure, you can get Net 30 accounts and maybe, one day, a Home Depot card! However, most creditors are going to check your personal credit if you are a sole prop or a small Inc./LLC. This is just a candid statement. We do "business credit" but, it is for legitimate businesses who want a D&B file estblished without paying the $500.00 for credit builder. We also help people get business account so that they can safe harbor there debt their and not kill their FICO scores. Still, you cannot obtain alll sort of business credit without a decent personal credit score and history. In any event, beware of the scams and idle claims . . . even those from Fair Isaac.
Just to be clear upfront - this is not an unauthorized advertising post, eventhough it somehow fits the criteria... after all, I include 2 website links plus I'm a brand new user on this forum. Onward. Dear Apex, Do you think the two companies below are doing just what you warned us about in your post above? www.gatewayreinc.com www.accessonecredit.com There might be others, too, but these are the only ones I could find for now. Both are touting the so-called CPN number (I wonder if they invented this term) which from start makes them smell like a rotten rainbow trout. Regardless of whether you buy into their "groundbreaking CPN program" or not, they offer to cultivate mortgages, auto and installment loans into your credit report. You can then harvest sweet and juicy FICO numbers and consume them any way you like (recipes are abundant on the web). I would appreciate an objective "report" on these outfits... so please disregard that: - the former has no phone number listed and is apparently headquartered in the heart of New York's Bronx, in an area which - when looked at using Google Earth - seems like a project building reservation. Oddly enough, they accept PayPal. - the latter does not accept PayPal, so you'd have to bite your nails after sending money to them. There is no information about their site anywhere, except a few pages where they advertise their services... uhm... craigslist.
Thanks Apex, It is always good to be wary of anything that seems to good to be true. I especially second your warning about obtaining a "CPN", or an "EIN", as this has been proven many times to be intnentional fraud. I feel I speak for all the other "seniors" in saying, "if you have any question about any "offer" to improve your credit, ask here on the forum before parting with your money". We will all be glad to segregate the good from the bad.
Any company that offers this stuff is culpable under several federal criminal statutes. Anyone that participates under it is unfortunately culpable as well.
File segregation has been around for many years and is widely described as illegal. Nevertheless, the name they found for the good ol' EIN is as pompous as it is funny... CPN - Credit Profile Number, wow. But let's not talk about CPNs. Suppose you give them your SSN in hopes of getting a little boost to your credit file. Suppose they do their job and next month you're looking at some nice mortage, installment and auto loans popping up. While it's definitely unethical to show up at any lender's gate with an artificially inflated credit score (and a big grin), what do you think about the legality of this? Could they come up with some sort of contract to be signed to cover their arse (and maybe yours?) Also, do you guys have any theories on how they are doing this? Have they set up something similar to ian5576's ideea or they simply submit false information to the bureaus using Metro 2? After you check them out (site1 site2), your thoughts would be much appreciated.
It's illegal insofar as it is simple fraud if the applicant defaults on anything they get. The chances are slim that any lender would refer it to a prosecuting attorney but, it is illegal nonetheless. Generally, the FTC and state AG's take these guys down when they find out. It is also mail and wire fraud so a federal offense is present. The applicants are certainly culpable inasmuch as they are using this mechanism and if they default; i.e. someone is damaged, then the elements for fraud are present. They entities providing this service are both accessories and conspirators "if" there is a default. In a civil context, there are so many causes of action I can't even begin but, liability is a foregone conclusion. As to how they do it, anyone can get a CPN. Just call the credit reporting agencies and go through the spiel. These companies charge upwards of $1,500.00 for something you can do in about half a day. There is no skill involved and no real work. You just have to inpersonate someone your not. They report these tradelines by either buying a subscription or having someone within a company do it for them for a fee. It is really that simple and really that illegal.
Yea, it is. However, someone has to rely on such a misrepresentation to their detriment. Thus, a scenario using this ill-advised methods would take a while to play out. Nonetheless, it is illegal for these entities to provide these "services" under the CROA. Now, that doesn't carry jail time but, some state CSOA do such as here in West Virginia. In that light, I guess it would be criminal activity right off the bat.
It's New York actually... I corrected the first link, there was an "inc" missing. Thanks John for accidentally bringing it to my attention. As for the second one, I have no ideea of their whereabouts. Anyway, you can be totally anonymous nowadays. Forget about financial websites logging IP addresses; just use a laptop to catch unsecured WiFi networks. A prepaid cell phone. Receiving funds? If they do bogus numbers, they'd be stupid to open bank accounts under their real names. How they manage to get the cash out is a matter of creativity. I wonder about how long it would take for someone to start digging after these entrepreneurs. I think that folks who use such services are likely to default eventually, but given the fact that they have no apparent connection to each other, they all apply for credit in different places and generally mind their own business, a pattern is not very likely to be noticed.
The FTC generally get these people. If they're bold enough to put out a website that offers blatantly illegal services . . . someone will catch on before long. I've not seen that many offering these types of services. I would suspect that most offering this garbage are underground so to speak.
Interesting . . . I was wondering what in the world a "Credit Profile Number (CPN)" might be so I Googled it. It appears that it is a nine digit number manufactured by the site owner and sold to poor souls for upwards of $500.00. I could find no reference to this numbering system in any of the Federal Statutes I researched. If anyone has any other information on the source of this "CPN" please post it. One of the sites touting the CPN claims it is legal and offers a link to the Privacy Act of 1974 (5 U.S.C. § 552a) http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/privstat.htm In reading the Act I found the following: "The following section originally was part of the Privacy Act but was not codified; it may be found at § 552a (note)". "Sec. 7(a) (1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number. (2) the provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect to-- (A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or (B) any disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of records in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was required under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the identity of an individual. (b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it." This is the only reference I could find. Any others???
Nope. It is my understanding that you can get one by claiming identity theft or just start making up a number so that you positive accounts will report it. In theory, you could change your social with a particular creditor and then they would report it. It would, in theory, create a new file under your name. In any event, it's file segregation and its illegal. Their is no information to be found on the net as to how this is really done.
I just discovered another funny thing... On the order form, you have to fill out some basic personal info like name / address / phone number etc. as well as what products you will be ordering. Two fields are particularily interesting though: Your SSN is ONLY required if you only want some tradelines and no CPN If you DO want a CPN, you must provide a "never before used address" This means that you just come up with a random name and whatever address and voila! A new you was born! This thing kind of eliminates my presumption about this so-called CPN being an EIN. To get your EIN from the government, you need to submit an online app and provide your social. Your EIN is generated instantly and ready for you to use. CPN is therefore something else - I think Apex mentioned that you can get something like this in half a day or so - what exactly is he (you) referring to? Oh, by the way... everything is perfectly legal! ))
My guess as to what it is is in my rant above . . . I just can't believe people are naive enough to buy this crap. We get calls daily about it and "new" files that people want populated with our accounts. When we take the time to explain that what they're doing or have done is illegal, they're offended. Either that or they explain that it's just "for credit purposes." I wonder where they heard that. They come to us because we are cheaper in the context of account tradelines. We send them back to the CPN generator for a discount if we catch wind of it.
Looks like we're approaching the point where all this can be declared as blatant fraud. If that's the case, I have a message to whoever it is that runs these websites: Hi there, I don't want to come across as a smartass or anything, but I have a suggestion on how to run your business. I have to ask myself... why do you even bother generating CPNs and tradelines? Instead of exposing yourself and all your clients to serious legal trouble, just take their money and enjoy it. I think the crime of deception carries a lesser punishment when compared to whatever you're doing right now. Plus, it's somewhat unlikely that anyone would report you to the authorities. I mean it's like going to the police station to file a report that someone stole your handbag full of marijuana. And, as Borat would say: I wish you GREAT SUCCESS! ...NOT.
Simply put, a "desperate customer is the easiest sale". I have seen businesses like this many times, they are very adept at "closing shop" in an instant, and reopening the same day under a different name. I am positive these firms already have that plan in place.
I since managed to find "a few more" websites offering numbers. Prices vary from the low hundreds to well beyond one thousand. Reading statements like "you can purchase as many as you like" and "you can even use a different name" made me pick up the phone and start calling around. All contacts were set up as a voicemail-callback procedure and, as of the time I'm writing, I got two replies. One of the guys was talking so openly that I was shocked. If I were to work in law enforcement, I would have felt the same frustration as Mel Gibson in the movie Ransom when the kidnapper was calling him about his son and the feds were not able to trace the call. He explained how he just makes up numbers using a number generator / validator, then checks it against the national social security database, then makes some sort of inquiry to the credit bureaus and voila!... a new credit file was born. So here I am, trying to get this straight: If there are 300 million people in the US and SSNs are not recycled, how come there's still room for all kinds of rules regarding number formats: area prefixes, checksums, etc. I mean there's only a mere billion out there! How can he have access to the "national database" or whatever to check his newfound numbers against previous issuance? What happens if the SSA issues a new number - let's say to a foreigner coming to the US - and that number has been fraudulently "issued" and used in the past by these crooks? Is it true that a new credit file is open with the bureaus whenever one submits an application for credit? I mean that's when your file is generated the first time? Also, aren't the CRAs supposed to verify a new number with the social security administration for validity? If anyone has access to this database, it should be them. If all this is as simple as this guy described it, then why do identity thieves even bother to well, uhm... steal identities? Why not just make one up, build credit, sting banks etc.
Crap or not crap, it's definitely illegal. What I was trying to point out was... is our whole credit system THIS vulnerable?
