Ron, although I'm sure this has happened once or twice, for you to insist that people stealing stuff from a atore and then returning to that store trying to get a refund is a massive, nationwide problem is substantially below the level of intelegence for the participants of CreditNet. Welcome aboard BTW.
They always get my name and fax number. Been doin it that way for decades. NOBODY has EVER faxed me anything. LOL
ummmmm, anyone considered addressing the shoplifters and shoplifting directly -- a proactive response that addresses the problem instead of a reactive response that assumes we are all shoplifters? Sassy
And if anyone thinks, they are ULTIMATELY doing this to prevent shoplifting hasn't read Sassy's post on Experian and Equifax, nor do they understand why insurance companies pull credit reports for car insurance. Who was it that said something about a national database. . .hmmm. wonder what they could do with that. . . .
Thank you for saying that I am substantially below the level of intelligence because you don't understand something. Why don't you talk to some of the senior people in the companies and you would find out before you insult someone who does know what they are talking about. I was involved in the process and was trained as the manager responsible for the program in the store. I also have been the one to catch shoplifters in the act because we found out that certain people were returning items far in excess of normal rates. BTW, I have been on the board for awhile. I don't offer comments unless I know what I am talking about or to ask for help from others.
I can agree with your feelings, however what do you propose be done. Any action taken would offend some. There are those who don't want video used, others who don't want store personnel to watch for theft, etc. Every method that has been devised does have drawbacks. Especially when the store personnel are not trained properly. Ron
well Ron, I guess then you should encourage the shoplifters to sell their stolen merchandise (pawn shops, swap meets) instead. It's apparent to me you've accepted the shoplifting. Sassy
ron, as an expert in your field, i'm sure you also know that most "shoplifting" comes from EMPLOYEES within the store/company not the avg. 15 year old boy or whoever you think is stealing from your store.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Remember that I worked to stop shoplifters during the 80s. Had them arrested and sent to jail. I am for using all legal means to get rid them period. I am not the one who complained about having to show an id. I explained why some stores require it. I do understand that people don't like to provide the id. I don't really like to provide it either now that I am just a customer but if it helps nab even a few then I am willing to put up with it.
Actually that isn't quite right. Most shoplifting is done by non-employees while the largest dollar amounts are almost always done by employees. As a matter of fact when I was promoted to security manager position it was because the prio security manager and 4 others were sent to jail for stealing from the store. They managed to get a truck load on 3 occasions before they were caught. I only work part time now due to health problems, and the store that I work at had over $960K in shrinkage this year. While there were probally 30 times as many shoplifting incidents that the store knows about as there were empolyee thefts at least 2/3rds of the money came from employee theft. Also most shoplifting losses are not done by 15 year olds. They are done by adults who are proffesionals at it. While the kids who shoplift outnumber others in total cases they tend to take small items as dares or for personal use. While there are a lot of them they tend not to be as costly to the store as people who do it all the time to make money. As far as Butchs statement that it is not a national problem, I suggest you go to http://www.crimedoctor.com/shoplifting.htm and read the page. Of particular interest is this section. "Shoplifting losses will vary by store type, but can account for about one-third of the total inventory shrinkage. It is estimated that shoplifting occurs 330 - 440 million times per year at a loss of $10 - $13 billion dollars. Nationwide, that equates to 1.0 - 1.2 million shoplift incidents everyday at a loss rate of $19,000 - $25,300 dollars stolen per minute. When you factor in employee and vendor theft, this sum skyrockets to an estimate of $33 billion dollars stolen per year. " I would definately say a million or more incidents a day is a national problem. Ron
Honestly Ron, I think it's a combination of factors, foremost of which is our society of decreasing foundational and moralistic values. A justice system that slaps people instead of punishing them and holding them accountable for their choices. A lack of personal responsiblity. A lack of a personal belief system that imposes consequences and responsibilities beyond this planet. None of which are solved by requiring an ID for exchanges. Why don't you just refuse to accept merchandise returned for a cash exchange? I believe you said after 5/6 times of exchanging the person will be watched more closely or something close. If shoplifting is that big of a problem, you need to be watching before they are returning 5/6 times regardless of whether they then return to make an exchange. Sassy
>>It also helps to identify those who are constantly buying and returning products just as a free rental. This happens far more frequently than most people are aware of. << Man. My roommate's prior landlord used to do this scam. It pissed my roommate and I off. The landlord was such a cheap bastard. He would buy a hammer at the hardware store, use it for a job, then return it. He was so proud of himself for it too. He used to brag about how "clever" he was. Boy are we glad have nothing to do with that guy anymore. PS and OT... he was a terrible landlord. He stole my roommate's private fridge one night and we found out later that it ended up being used at another one of his properties where the fridge had broken down. When he threatened to call the cops on the landlord (who had no idea what happened, so he claimed), the fridge showed up one morning. What the LL did not know is that we knew the other tenant through our office building. He had described to us his "new" replacement fridge, which turned out to be the missing fridge. We got him back. I rented my two empy rooms in my house to both of these guys who have turned out to be great roommates. We did all this in the middle of the night and stiffed the landlord who then had 2 fridgeless vacancies which he could not rent. He raised all kinds of hell, but we told him that he tries anything, we will file charges for theft of property.
"Giggle, Well Ron, first I did not say that YOU were sub standard in your intelegence. How you made that giant leap I'm not sure. " Lets not play games. You made the assertation that for me to insist what actaully happens is substantially below the level of intelegence for the participants of CreditNet. That is the same thing. You asserted that my statement showed substandard intelligence when the problem is that you didn't know what you were talking about. "Thanks, I already have. " Then you should know better. "Caught them in the act of doing what? Shoplifting, or shoplifting and then bringing the same items back to the same store for a refund. Which IS what my point was about. Please re-read my post. " Both. If we had not found evidence of the action, we would not have taken an action that cost us money, time, and goodwill from our customers. To develop a database for all sores in a chain is expensive. Implementing new procedures and training for front desk, management, and security is also expensive. Then upsetting those customers who have done nothing wrong and just want to return an item is really expensive in future sales. "But people who steal and then return those same items to the same store for a refund is NOT. That level of stupidity does exist, but it's rare. lol " Ask local police officers or you local prosecuter. It is not that rare an occurence anymore. "Nor did I suggest you didn't know what you're talking about. " Obviously, when you make a remark like you did, you suggesting that. I really don't care to argue with you or to waste a lot more time on this thread. However, just realize you should not start assuming someone is wrong because you don't know something.
Sassy, I will agree about your first points. As for why we don't refuse everyone, think about it for a minute as the person who bought an item that they could not use after all. Should they have to lose their money because they made a mistake? As you pointed out earlier, we should not assume everyone is a thief. As for watching before they return things a number of times; again, you said we should not assume everyone is a shoplifter. You have to take a balanced approach to stop the problem as much as possible while trying not to be to onerous on your customers. We watch for action through the whole store the entire time. However if someone takes action that we know is likely to indicate shoplifting then there is increased scrutiny.
Lol they can have your fingerprints on the card cause you handed it them and your fingerprint it probably on the check (liftable) when you handed it to them. Which reminds me, the folks at galyans typed in my whole drivers license info on a $20 return into their computer. I was very patient, but normally would have told someone to F OFF on a $20 return with receipt back to the same credit card.. lol The security models they build are still flawed, fingerprint or not. I guess they haven't seen charlies angels or something.
However, just realize you should not start assuming someone is wrong because you don't know something. ronpurvis ===================== I have seen some people do just that in response to me.
"I wasn't suggesting you refuse anyone, Ron, only exchanging items for cash. Could you not issue a store credit in the same amount? " They do use store credit as a method to keep the problem under control also. The idea is take a multi layered approach. Keep in mind the 80/20 rule when dealing with security. 80% of the problem can be solved with 20% of the effort. Tyring to solve the last little bit of the problem takes the vast majority of the effort. "I don't think having securiy to PREVENT the shoplifting in the first place makes anyone a thief or implies so. The idea wasn't to single out individuals, it was to change the environment that the thieves are thriving in." However to catch a pro, you do have to single them out. If you are not actively watching that person they will be able to slip by. Think how hard it is to catch a skilled magician when he does a trick. Shoplifting pros are extremely good at slight of hand also. In addition they normally work as teams, with one or more members of the team to distract you. Ron
