This is a pretty weird situation and I hope someone can help me on this....... About a year and a half ago I got financing through a company on the web called TranSouth. The intrest rate was almost 20% but since I needed a car I took the loan and went shopping for a car. I ended up at a local dealership and bought a new Ford Focus. What a mistake! From day one the car was a piece of crap and was in the shop constantly. I contacted an attorney and with a call to the dealership and ford, after about 6 months they agreed to give me another car. I contacted TranSouth and told them about the problem and that they would be giving me another car in exchange for this one. They didn't seem to care only stating I would have to pay off the current loan and restart out fresh. I thought this odd and talked to a service manager with TranSouth who stated to just go to the dealership and have them contact TranSouth about the transfer. We went to the dealership and picked out another car, Ford Focus again, and told the dealer about the traded (Lemon car) being financed through TranSouth and that they needed to contact them and make arrangements and get the title. The dealer said don't worry and they will handle it for us. We left with the newer car. After about 3 months this car started to have problems too! It stalled all the time and ran like crap. The dealer didn't know what the problem was or how to fix it. Being frustrated we didn't know what to do and knew going through getting another car or our money back would be a problem. Then a very strange thing happened! After about 5 months with the new car we received in the mail from TranSouth a title to our new vehicle?? We though it might be the old title and that they sent it to us instead of the dealership, but...we checked and lo and behold it was in fact to the new car. We sat on it for about 2 months to see if TranSouth would contact us or find out. They did not! We continued to pay on the loan mothly by calling them and paying by check by phone and the lady always said....This will be a payment for your 2001 Ford Focus? I said yes...They didn't even know we traded the car and that the newer car was in fact a 2002. Not wanting to put up with the car any longer we went to another dealership with the title and traded the car even up for a used car on the dealership lot. We got the other car and it runs and looks perfect. I kinda thought ahead and had the vehicle placed in my husband's name only. Since the TranSouth loan is in my name and the other car is now in my husband's name. Now here comes the hard part.....I was late on one of the car payments and was contacted by TranSouth collections who are a bunch of stupid idiots. It became late to the point of being 2 car payments due this past month and I just paid the payments to get current. It now seems that in the interim of it being in collections they did some investigating and found out there is no insurance coverage for the vehicle. Why would there be, we don't even have the car anymore! They contacted my Insurance agent and he stated when we dropped coverage on the car and that coverage was instated on another vehicle instead. I was contacted again by collections with TranSouth stating they want me to get coverage on the car immediately and send it to them. I simply stated I don't drive the car anymore and don't want to insure it. She said why?? I said because of a DL suspension (lie), this was the only reasonable explanation I could give them. She said regardless the vehicle needs to be insured, (which i do know) but I stated I'm not gonna do it. She said....Can you confirm you address for me?? I did....She said where is the car now? I lied and said at the address. She said she would process the paperwork for a repo due to no insurance. I then said, I guess you'll have to do that. She said yes we will. I then hung up with her. My question is this....They can't repo a car they don't have a title for, won't they soon discover this out? Even if they do show up they won't find the car because it is long gone. We have the title to the new car with just my husband's name on it and they can't take that even if they wanted to. I can see a lawsuit happening on me very soon! I am trying to protect what little assests we have now before it even gets to the point of a lawyer contacting me. We live in PA. There is no Garnishment laws. We pretty much have no assests. We rent. Our bank account is jointly held so I don't think they could attack that since his name is on it as well. In fact later this week I am having my name removed from all bank accounts. Thus I won't even have a bank account. Any suggestions on this matter? Thanks for the help! Desperate
I know this might not answer your post, but I was fascinated by what you and your husband did ;-) I think Transouth would probably sue and try to recover their money, and probably to scare you, they would claim fraud because you got the title to a car that wasn't paid. Since you used the old title (unpaid car), to get a new car, they might claim fraud too. I REALLY wish you luck, because to scare you they will probably mention jail. I really would like to see what others have to say about this ;-)
Thanks for the reply!! I don't think they'd have much of a case proving fraud since they did send me the title. I didn't break in and steal it from them. Why else would they send me a title if the loan were secured?? What would someone expect? When I got the first car I only signed papers for a 2001 Ford Focus and gave that back to the dealership. I checked carfax and ran the Vin of the old car and it seems the car was either bought or transferred to another person down south. How could the dealership sell the car if TranSouth didn't send them a title to the original 2001?? They must have contacted TranSouth and TranSouth must have sent the dealer the 2001 car title. The dealer sent transouth the newer title and TranSouth made a mistake in sending it to me! They TranSouth new about the old vehicle trade at the dealership and as such completed the transaction with the dealership. Me getting rid of the newer car shouldn't be construed as fraud since I never signed papers for that newer car?? Even if I did get rid of the car from reading the loan agreement, by selling or transferring a vehicle constitutes breach of contract and a civil and not criminal offense? This is only my take on things that is why I am asking questions here. The people here seem to know their stuff! Thanks! Desperate
O.k. I understand ;-) Again, I think that was really funny what you guys did ;-) Even though I couldn't answer your question, at least I got it moved up.... Good luck.........
We know enough to tell you this Desperate. Contact an attorney on this one. And I don't mean a credit repair atty. either. It's too complex, or soon will be, for you to deal with it alone.
Exactly. And, yes they sent a title in error. And you, knowing full well it was a mistake, traded the car in as if it was paid in full. They can and likely will prosecute for fraud. You were trying to pull a fast one and maybe got away with it for a short time, but it always catches up to you in the end. And frankly, in my opinion, if they do prosecute you for fraud, you deserve it.
It doesn't sit well with me either. Even though TranSouth totally screwed up and sent you the title, it would have been far more responsible to own up to the snafu than to be worrying about it now. I can honestly say I don't blame them for trying to get their money back and sue you and your husband in the process. Everything you did was highly unethical and it seems to me that even though they may not prove fraud, you did intend to defraud them.
Yeah, I feel the same too! I don't mind the harsh words it wasn't the right thing to do I know. I will add that even though I did get rid of the car I am up to date and will continue to pay the car loan. I can see if I wasn't paying but I am and will continue to. Thanks! Desperate
Why don't you go ahead and add the Ford back to your existing insurance coverage and send in the insurance verification to TranSouth. That way you can continue to live your little lie. Then continue making your payments as required under the original loan agreement and no one is the wiser. I don't believe their is any requirement that you actually own the car you insure...lol. I think I could insure my neighbor's car if I wanted to. Hopefully you don't have long to pay this loan off. If you don't act quick, TranSouth will obtain coverage on your behalf and it will be extremely high, and you will be responsible for the insurance they obtain plus the loan balance. They also have a Purchased Money Security Interest (PMSI) in the vehicle, but you have subrogated their ability to lay claim on the vehicle by selling it out from under them. You sold a car and represented it as free and clear of any and all liens when, in fact, it was not free and clear of liens and you knew full well it was not. This is considered fruad in the inducement and it is against the law. If you get cuaght you could be in serious trouble. Not only could you end up owing TranSouth, you could owe the poor slob who bought the car as well.
Though everyone is right, perhaps we would all be well served to restrain ourselves from being TOO harsh. Especially in light of her most recent comment. imho
Ultimately what could happen is TranSouth could repo the Ford from the current owner - title or not, because they have a PMSI on it. They use professional repomen and skiptracing to locate cars through the state registration database. The current owner, after finding his car missing and doing some research, could then lay claim against the dealership, or you, which ever he preferred, to put him back in the same financial position he was before the transaction occured. My guess is he would go after the dealership due to deeper pockets. The dealer could then lay claim against you to put them back in the same financial position. You would be responsible for reimbursing the dealership, and you would still be responsible for your loan balance with TranSouth after they auction off the car. It could get very messy and the police would probably be involved before it is over. Further, it would be a credit nightmare.
P.S. none of the opinions expressed in this public forum should be construed as professional advice, and no warranties either implied or express are made. Neither this board, nor any of it's members are responsible for damages or losses that you may suffer from following advice freely given in this forum. This is free advice and that is all!!! You, as a reasonable adult, are required to do your homework, sift through the varying opinions of others, and come to the best conclusion for your situation on your own. Just wanted to clarify this point.
In GA, insurance coverage is reported to the DMV. If the current owner has coverage and then she gets coverage, will that throw up a red flag at the DMV?
I'm confused as to why you didn't just tell them the truth. If the car was returned to the dealership because of the lemon laws, seems to me that was the time to resolve things by having the dealership pay off this loan. Afterall...they were the ones who got the money from the sale of the vehicle. This whole things is surreal. I hate to say it, but the way you tell this thing smells like fraud. Not saying that was your intent...but why would you work so hard at not having anything in your name...if the car was a lemon, then why all this wacky stuff? My best advice is definately to see a lawyer because me thinks you are going to need it and the least of your worries might be getting sued in civil court. JMHO... L
I would have to agree with whyspers on this one. The least of your worries is a civil suit. You can and in all likelyhood will end up with criminal charges and unfortunately if this is your story you better change it fast because it would not be too hard to prove intentional fraud. By your own admission you intentionall put the new vehicle in your husbands name. All they need is to prove intent and they are half way to winning a case civil or criminal against you. It really makes no difference if TranSouth sent the title to you in error. The fact is that you knew they were still leinholders on the title by virtue of the fact that you are still paying on the loan. It will be very easy for them to prove they made a simple mistake and it was your intention to defraud them. I am a layman and if I can see this surely any judge would also.
Yes, I see where everyone is coming from. I definetly did not handle this correctly. I had already pulled tooth and nail the first time when I returned the lemon and they gave me another car. I had the newer car back in for service 3 months after they gave it to me and they didn't want to hear me or deal with it. The manager thought I was being greedy and said Ford WILL NOT give you another vehicle because there is nothing wrong with this one. I was stupid in figuring as long as I continued to make payments they wouldn't hassle me and there wouldn't be a problem. The car was placed in my husband's name because he is the primary driver of the vehicle, even though I have the loan. I own a Dodge Stratus which is financed through Household Auto, luckily no problems there. I wasn't trying to committ fraud, only get another comparable vehicle that ran, looked and was safe. While it may have been their mistake in sending me the title, the do have some cupability in doing that. By forcing a judgement they really aren't going to accomplish anything. As I write this now they are paid up to date and it is current. I got a call from them this morning asking me to voluntarily turn in the vehicle. I said since I didn't have it......You guys can come and get it if you want it. She said probably in a day or two they will do a forced repo. I said...of course that is your right. I didn't want to be argumentitive....What could I really say to her?? She obviuosly if I told her would refer it to their attorney anyway, so I figure I can deal with him. I will speak to my attorney this afternoon. I'm more worried about criminal charges then a civil suit. If they sue they aren't going to get anything because we are broke. We kinda live paycheck to paycheck. I would be more then happy to continue to make payments and make good on the loan though. I figure by staying current this can't hurt anything. Thanks alot guys for all the help, I know I really screwed up now and I will take whatever I have coming. Desperate
The problem with prosecuting for fraud is that every criminal charge has one component. INTENT. Also, criminal charges hold the prosecutor to a higher standard -beyond a reasonable doubt. I give you some credit, even though you had a signed off title, you continued to pay for the loan anyway. That shows some level of integrity. It would also be your defense that you did not have the intent to defraud. The reality is that what goes around comes around and you eventually are caught up with. I hope this turns out ok for you.
Nope can't do this. There is a little technical/legal element to insurance called "insurable interest" that must be present for an insurance contract to exist. No insurable interest, no contract. I don't think that the possibility of getting in trouble if you don't have insurance would constitute insurable interest. <chuckle> I know you are in accounting, but I think you must have this mixed up with something else: It doesn't matter who pays for the insurance, hahahaha!! We will take your neighbor's check for the premium - it doesn't matter whose money it is, as long as money changes hands. So, it has to be your car, but it can be your neighbor's money that pays the premium. Strange but true.
