Okay, I posted somewhere here about my problem with Wells Fargo and their nonpermissable purpose to access our credit. I tried to do a search to find the post, but it isn't working. To recap in a nutshell: We applied for a mortgage 6/20/02. WF ran our CR. We closed 7/13/02. On 8/27/02 they ran HARD inquiries with coded "personal finance". I have sent two letters to them regarding this (first was nice, asking what PP they had, blah blah blah, asked them to delete. They sent me back a form letter telling me to dispute CR info with the CRAs and gave me contact info. I sent back letter (copied from forum, but modified) stating fines, etc, asking for deletion and $4,000 (2 reports on 8/27 for me and 2 for DH). I quoted the usual PP laws and opinion letters. I got back the same form letter. I sent my ITS letter with a final chance for settlement. I received a response. Here it is: Dear D & J, We are in receipt of your inquiry about obtaining a credit report. The federal law applicable to use of credit bureauss permits a mortgage lender to make a firm offer of credit based upon it's pre-screening criteria. In this situation, a firm offer of credit was made to you for a no cost refinance. (This is a lie. They didn't offer a no cost refi 1 month after closing. Besides, we have a 2 year prepayment penalty on our loan - we CANT refi for 2 years! Anyway, this would be a promotional inquiry on our report. This is coded hard). We are unable to address your question on the impact, if any, on your credit score, as we cannot speak on behalf of the credit bureau agencies. You could contact them at the number or address below to discuss it with them. It is our general understanding that this type of inquiry should not affect the score. (That would be correct if they ran a SOFT, but they ran a HARD. I can prove my score dropped 3 points from 602 to 599 when I applied for a different loan in Feb and the reason was too many inquires. I printed the page.) I need help. I guess they think I'm stupid. It really gets me the way that they lied. They never offered us a refi (like they would before we even had a payment due!) and the fact that we CANT refi the loan. I have picked up small claims papers at the courthouse. I need to compose a letter with my demands ($4000 & deletions) that they take serious. Thanks!
You might want to send one more response to their last letter, responding line by line to their comments. I say this because they are a current creditor or yours and they will be for at least 2 years. They could make things difficult for you if you sue them. By difficult I mean posting payments late, then reporting it as late, etc. It has happened before. If they weren't a current creditor, I'd say go for it. Just consider carefully before taking any action.
you got the violations, them basicly admitting they had no PP for the hard, and damages (the turned down loan). seems pretty cut and dry. give'em hell
I'm not real worried about them posting payments late. We pay the payment electronically, so I have the proof of the scheduled payment. I have it set to pay 4 days BEFORE the due day. I always go in and look to make sure it posts.
I received a similar (stupid) response, and did as LKH suggested responded point by point. I closed my letter with the fact they had x days to respond or my next step would be the courthouse. I sent the letter via the Agent of Service, which placed it in the right department to settle with me.
The thing is, they do have a pp in this instance. The footnotes in the Gowen Letter shows that Congress did create an exemption to the mortgage industry. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/gowen.htm The 2nd footnote gives them pp.
Do a search at your states Corporation Commission or Secretary of State websites. It will be shown as agent for service, statutory agent or authorized agent.
Would I use my state (IL), the state the inquiry was run from (MN), or the state that my last bogus letter came from (SC)?
Ok, I did the search. It shows the president's name and the secretary's name (This is an Illinois Corporation listing, but hey are both located in IA?) Which should I use?
Sorry, I'm having trouble getting my brain going this morning. It also lists an agent name (Illinois Corporation Service C) and an address in Springfield. Would this Illinois Corporation Service C be who I would send it to? There is no individual named. Should I send it to all 3 (Illinois Corporation, president & secretary? That might be overkill.
Illinois Corporation Svc. Agent of Service for WF and ICS' address. Its a company that their business is being an Agent of Service. Just send to them...it will get to the right place. I think they usually take about 24 hours.
Give 'em hell!!! And save the letter that they sent you. Should they change their story in response to your suit, present the letter into evidence. It is likely, their whole defense will be thrown out. Be careful. Your home owners insurance may skyrocket. My dad, who has impeccable credit, saw his homeowners insurance double after 2 credit inquiries hit his report in 12 months. Should any of your insurance rates increase, add these to the damages. Has Wells Fargo tried to remove the hard inquiries?
My husband is the agent for our home owners insurance, so he is on top of that. As far as deletion, they haven't tried or even offered. Here is a draft of my letter to them. Everyone's thoughts and comments are appreciated. I haven't sent it yet: March 26, 2003 Illinois Corporation Service C 700 S 2nd Street Springfield, IL 62704-2516 Re: Wells Fargo Home Mortgage (Our names) Loan #XYZ123 Dear Agent for Wells Fargo, I am writing this in a last attempt to settle this amicably with Wells Fargo. I am enclosing copies of correspondence sent to and received from Wells Fargo. As you can see by reading, we applied for a mortgage with Wells Fargo on 6/20/02. Our credit reports were ran at that time. We closed on the loan the beginning of July 2002. On August 27, 2002 Wells Fargo ran 2 credit reports on me and 2 on my husband. These are HARD inquiries and are coded as â??finance/personalâ? on our credit reports. This is a direct violation of our privacy. Wells Fargo did not have permissible purpose to run our credit reports 6 weeks AFTER our loan closed. Please reference the letter dated 3/17/03 from XXNAMEXXX, Default Reporting, regarding this matter. There are many untruths in the letter. She states the federal law applying to pre-screening criteria. These are coded as soft inquiries (promotional) with the credit bureaus and have no negative impact on credit scores. However, this is NOT what Wells Fargo ran on us. She also states that a firm offer of credit was made to us for a no cost refinance. We NEVER received such an offer from Wells Fargo. We hadnâ??t even had a payment due on our loan at that time. If Ms. XXXXX had bothered to look closely at our loan, she would have seen that we have a 2 year prepayment penalty. This would have barred us from refinancing a mere 6 weeks after our loan had closed. I am frankly insulted by her letter. She is implying that the inquiries are coded soft, when they are hard, and she is not telling the truth about the nature of the inquiry. No offer of credit was extended in August. By checking our loan type (prepayment penalty) you will see that my statement is true. Again, I am restating the fact that Wells Fargo did not have permissible purpose to run 2 credit reports on me on 8/27/02 nor did they have permissible purpose to run 2 credit reports on my husband on 8/27/02. This is a direction violation of the FCRA and is punishable with a fine of $1,000 per violation or damages, whichever is greater. From the FCRA § 616. Civil liability for willful noncompliance [15 U.S.C. § 1681n] "(b) Civil liability for knowing noncompliance. Any person who obtains a consumer report from a consumer reporting agency under false pretenses or knowingly without a permissible purpose shall be liable to the consumer reporting agency for actual damages sustained by the consumer reporting agency or $1,000, whichever is greater." From the 1998 FTC opinion letter Greenblatt at http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/greenblt.htm: "Any person who procures a consumer report under false pretenses, or knowingly without a permissible purpose, is liable for $1000 or actual damages (whichever is greater) to both the consumer and to the consumer reporting agency from which the report is procured." If Wells Fargo had responded promptly to my first request for deletion, the matter would not have went any further. However, I have picked up papers to file a small claims suit in Fulton County Illinois seeking $4000.00 in fines. I will be filing my paperwork on Monday, March 31, 2003, as I have scheduled the day off of work to take care of this. I will be willing to settle this matter amicably out of court for the monetary damages plus deletions from our credit reports. Due to the time issue here, please respond via fax at xxx-xxx-xxxx. I have repeatedly asked for this in my correspondence, and it still is sent the slowest possible route, US Postal Service. This fax number is a private fax and the information will be kept confidential. If I have not received a settlement offer before Monday, March 31, 2003, a small claims case will be filed. Sincerely, Names
Re: Re: Wells Fargo lawsuit I would mention here that with these types of inquiries, they are only entitled to receive your name, address, and other limited information. WF received your entire report (see 604 (2)). IMHO too much information. We never received such an offer PERIOD. Also, there is another FTC opinion letter that states they cannot use your entire report as a marketing tool. Might be a good place for it here (if your interested). This awards liability to the CRA, I would add 616 (a)(1)(B) Don't tell them what you would have done in the first place, our what you will do to settle this. I would finish this with a date certain to respond to you, or you will be filing suit for the violations in the total sum of x. Its ok to accept by fax, but you really should send this CMRRR to absolutely prove they received it. I used" within x days of the tracked and confirmed delivery of this letter". You might also want to check the rules of your small claims court. I had to send a certified ITS before I can initiate a lawsuit. So there is no misunderstandings - these are just my opinions!
Re: Re: Wells Fargo lawsuit as is, it appears that you are giving them a choice - settle for 4k, or you'll sue them for the 4k... is this correct? If so, I'd think it doesn't give them much incentive to settle. Also, I may be way off here, but I believe you're limited to 1k per legal action, not per violation. This is an area I'm unsure of though. If so, in my sutuation I've been thinking about the possibilities of a seperate legal action for each violation, or something to that effect. I haven't though it out very much yet though as I'm looking for clarification on the limits of civil liabilities.
