You may have to continue down both paths. The CA, and the dentist, have so far, I presume, provided you with nothing in writing about the debt. All you have is your damaged credit report and verbal claims and threats. The police may require at least a bill, with a name similar to you at some odd billing address, or something, to say there has been a specific id theft crime committed against you. Continued pressure on both parties may still be necessary to produce this, or to otherwise force them to cave. Either way, you have to go down both paths. One caveat: make sure this couldn't be some bill for services provided to a dependent, or ex-dependent. You could still have been liable, even if you were never billed. All of the above is only my opinion. I am not an attorney.
By the way, what state are you in? Some states have stronger laws and penalties than the federal FCRA and FDCPA.
To answer your question, I am in California. Thanks to your advice, I have some good news. So far I had been very nice and soft spoken as is my nature. I had been psyching myself up since yesterday to be tough on the phone when I was to call them back at 12:30 today, taking your previous advice that being nice doesn't get you anywhere. SO I call at 12:30, the guy ansawers I say who I am and he acts like he doesn't know and asks what my call is regarding. At this point I roll my eyes and have had enough. I tell him he had told me yesterday to call at this time regarding the debt I don't owe. He was going to put me on hold, I said if they are unable to resolve it, my attorney needs to speek with "xyz" (the dentist) and needs to know what time he can contact him today. So after he puts me on hold he comes back and says that since they've been unable to trace any info with me in their office, he will write the letter stating I am not a patient there, but he is asking if I have ever co-signed for anyone, and still dragging it on. I said no I have never co-signed for anyone and would like to know just as much as he does how my name is tied with a debt at their office, moreso than they do but that at this moment I need them to release me from any obligation. Anyways to make a long story short, I gave him my fax number and he will be sending me a letter. What a nightmare this has been. I am glad I was able to resolve it, at least will be able to shortly. Sad how being nice made them walk all over me, not respect me or take me seriously and play games. I becamse forceful yesterday and today. It's just not in my nature to be mean. Instead of apologizing to me, they're acting like I should be kissing their ass. Some people... Thanks for the encouragement and helping me out and letting me come to you!!! THANKS
And with the dentist, you are dealing with the better side of the problem. At least they have some concept that their business is about providing services for patients, who come back if they are satisfied. Even then, you are learning, as I had to in a similar situation, that getting them to do the right thing, even when it is obvious, takes assertiveness, insistance, and a degree of arm twisting. You are helping build their character. The collection industry is under no such constraints, since you are not even a customer, but prey. Their behavior reflects that difference, and the sooner you recognize the distinction, the sooner you will succeed. After every phone call, follow up with a letter in summary, ending with what they agreed to do. FAX it, mail it certified, copy the delivery confirmation from the usps web site, and file your copies. It may seem silly, but do this religiously! You both force them forward to perform as agreed, make sure they don't "forget", build your paper trail should you need to drag them into court. You are not just being polite and helpful, but it is clear you mean business. What you are creating may not be quite a legally enforcable contract, but there is a social side to negotiation, and most normal people view themselves as good and ethical, and don't want to believe they didn't do what they said they would. The credit reporting systems, including the actions of creditors, are designed to propagate and maintain their information, even when it is wrong. Despite the legal requirements to maintain "maximum accuracy", it is not important to them, and they do a poor job of it. You may also find, as I have, that an erroneous CR TL you thought was dead, will reappear later. You can then, as I had to, pull out your files, directly contact the people who were responsible for fixing it the first time, send them copies of the various letters and agreements already reached, which they will have "lost" and otherwise have to "research". You don't start at square one, they just look at your copy of their own letter, and fix it quickly. You have given them a path of least resistance that achieves your goal.
What a wealth of information on that website - thanks a bunch for providing it...very interesting. I put it on my "favorites" so I can go back to read all of it. Well, the office was supposed to have faxed the letter to me yesterday. I've been so patient. I just called them half an hour ago because I don't have it yet. The guy said in a hurried voice "I'm on another call let me get your number and I'll call you back." Mind you i've given them my number at least 5 times so far and they have never called me once like they say. I am so fed up. I guess I'll call him back right now to hear their excuse why they haven't sent the letter yet, probably going to tell me they're too busy to type it up. I just need two sentences. THey are spending more time dealing with me on the phone! I hate this so bad.
Now they are hanging up on me when I call...saying the dentist is out today and he has to review the letter!!! They won't give me his phone number or anything. I called 3 times because they are hanging up on me and talking over me. First they were going to take care of it last Friday, then monday, then tuesday, then Wed. when their office manager (who the person I was talking with said he was the first time, suddenly there is a mysterious 3rd party who is the office manager), wed they say the office manager confirmed I have not been a patient there and will fax the letter, thursday i wait all day for a fax, i call today to follow up, they keep hanging up on me, then they said to call monday at 11am, then monday after 2pm because the dentist has to review it...I AM SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW. I asked for their address, he said to look it up in the yellow pages and hung up!
Have you sent, or received, anything in writing, from any of these parties: either dentist's office, or CA?
I have not received ANYTHING in writing from anyone, other than what is on my credit report from Experian and the bureaus... My attorney is very soft spoken so I feel like if I call him right now and ask them to talk to these clowns, that it might even set me back, these guys are in your face people who are worse than the CA i talked to, at first all nice but now they are rude as can be. I am stalling the signing of my loans. The seller's agent just called to say that they have already moved out, what is keeping things up and so on, I don't know what to do, this is a nightmare.
The girl finally supposedly gave me the dentist's home number - I insisted that he must have a beeper or home number to be reached at. When I called the numbe, it was just a 2nd number for their office and the guy there answered! I was so furious of their games...I am waiting for their office to close because usually they will have a number to call in case of an emergency and I can ask to speak to the dentist hopefully and get through. Why should I hold back from inconveniencing him when his office is more than slightly inconveniencing me?
You do not depend on others to send you things in writing to establish your rights or fix things. Although that is your goal, you MUST accompany each request, demand, dispute, or whatever you may do by phone, by a letter, certified, sent out the same day. Otherwise you will end up where you are now. You gave the CA your current address. Key questions: Has the CA sent you anything in writing demanding payment, or notifying you of your right to dispute? Have you sent any dispute to the CA, in writing? Certain legal rights, under FDCPA, do not even exist without disputing in WRITING. The CA hardly has to fear screwing up your home purchase, even if they know it is not your debt, if you have not even disputed the CR TL IN WRITING, Certified so you can prove they got it. They know this game better than you. They know what they can get away with. You cannot afford to let them.
I have not received any correspondence from the CA ever...on my credit report it says that this amount is due since November 2000 and when I talked to the CA they said back then they had sent me a letter and I would've had 30 days to dispute it, I said no they hadn't, i just found out about it because it was placed brand new on my credit report on January (and it does list that it is from Nov 2000), the CA said if I didn't get it it would've been returned back to them but she wouldn't let me talk to explain that that would happen only if the people they mailed it to took the time to return it back to them. I didn't send any letters to the dental office earlier in the week since they sounded like it would all be resolved the next day and each day the next day. I wish I had..I will type one up right now but the PO will close soon, I will mail it certified today and it should get to them Monday. Thanks for that tip, I wish I followed it the first time you told me. The CA hasn't sent anything because if they had called the dental office, they would've been told they can't find my account, I think they're all trying to kill time knowing I'm in a bind....
I just finished typing up a great letter that sums up what has transpired in the past week, very nicely written I must say. I wish I had done it earlier in the day, I can't wait to mail it off tomorrow...I guess I won't ask for a signature so they don't play games not signing for it. I will send it so I can track when it gets delivered as evidence that their office received it. I have a feeling that if the dentist learns what is going on, he will not tolerate how his office people are treating the situation nor will he appreciate that they never return my calls as they say and that they hang up on me. I listed my attorney's fax number with his name to be sent the fax to. I hope they don't think I"m trying to intimidate them, but that's what my attorney asked they do, that they send the letter to his fax.
The letter you are describing is presumably the letter to the dentist. Make clear that this bogus account is costing you thousands of dollars. Send it Certified. That proves you mailed it, when you mailed it, and to what address you mailed it. The USPS web site will let you look up the Certified tracking number, which will allow you to print out a report showing the date the post office delivered to that address. Not quite the same as CRRR, but good enough for most purposes, and avoids games or problems with the recipient deliberately not picking up and signing green cards. You will know it was delivered days before you could even get a green card back. If you are delayed in sending Certified, maybe can't get to an open post office, etc, mail normal, and follow up with Certified copy a day or two later when you can. Letters are cheap. Not ending this is expensive. Whether or not they get the uncertified one (they probably will), you will also know they got the certified one.
I can't thank you enough...I think that will do the trick sending the letter. I just wish that the dentist himself will read it, I have a feeling it will be opened by the office workers and they won't give it to him, they'll try to continue "resolving" (holding things up) the situation. You are smart - I can send it both regular and certified...and the green card receipt thing is just a waste of time because it will require a sig I think...like you say I will just send it certified and track it on usps.com and make a print out of confirmation when it gets delivered. I just wish I wasn't under the gun timewise like this.... Thanks so much for all of your useful advice.
You are not paranoid if they are out to get you. You want them to immediately fax their letter to your attorney for "review". Just because they typed up something they think will get you out of their hair, does not mean it will, or that they are off the hook. The letter must be clear, unambiguous, and accomplish its purpose in pulling the legal right to collect anything from you out from under the CA. Your attorney should review it, discuss it with you, if necessary direct them what to change, and then direct them to both FAX and send it to the CA certified, with copies sent to him and you.
I just found out a nearby post office has an automated machine to print out the sticker to send mail certified that can be used instead of having it manually done by a worker - either afterhours or during regular hours. The only catch is you can't track when the letter goes out since nobody manually scans the barcode, but they scan it upon delivery so you can look online as far as the date/time it gets delivered...i'm off to the post office now so I can be assured it will definitely arrive by Monday...THANKS
Now for the CA: You disputed the debt, even verbally, with them when you first phoned them. I bet they did NOT mark the credit report entry as "disputed". FDCPA violation. They have failed to send you a letter within 5 days of their first communications with you. FDCPA violation. Of course they claim they sent one, years ago, to some address they claim was yours (did they ever say which one?), but no doubt they did NOT send it certified, they just depend on "having procedures in place to follow the law". Yeah, right. Like their little speil with the list of addresses. What do you expect? That they would actually admit to anything? You know the account was not on your credit reports even a couple months ago. Now it is, just as you shop for a mortgage. Their claims of attempting to collect from you years ago are probably bogus, since then the TL would have been on your reports all these years. What does the credit report entry say about when they acquired it? (Not when it was originally charged off.) They ignore what you say. You ignore what they say. Talk is cheap. People who talk, lie. People who lie in writing get caught.
You send your dispute to the CA. Dispute the debt, in its entirety. Indicate you have never used this dentist, and have confirmed with the dentist that you are not even in their billing records. Mention the date of your original call to them, that you disputed the debt to them at that time, that that was your first communications from them, and that you are demanding validation of the debt, as required by FDCPA. Even though you think you have some of this verbally, do this to match the FDCPA wording, clearly invoking your rights. Specifically ask for: 1) the amount of the debt; 2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed; 3) verification of the debt, or a copy of any judgement 4) the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor. Verification must include: 5) The product or service provided for which this debt is allegedly owed. 6) The date the product or service was provided. 7) An accounting for all payments, fees, or charges applied to the account, including any insurance companies billed for the account. 8) The date of the last payment made on the account. 9) The name and address of the party to whom the product or service was provided, from the original creditor's original billing records. Keep it short and direct. Send it whatever gets it into the mail for delivery fastest (special delivery, if you can). Also send it Certified. You might put: CC: Mr. xyz, Attorney at Law and send your attorney a copy. Keep copies, of course, stapled to your Certified receipts and USPS confirmations.
ooh...i wish I had cc'd my attorney. I went to the post office already, mailed it off - one regular and one certified and it feels so good having done that, knowing they will have the letter Monday by the time I get a chance to talk to the dentist himself if it reaches that point. I got a new copy of my Experian reporrt, here are the details you ask of. ------------------------------ Date opened - 4-2001 Reported since - 11-2000 Date of status - 10-2000 Last reported - 1-2006 Status: Collection account, $1716 past due as of Jan 2006. Account history: Collection as of Jan 2006, Dec 2005, Oct 2005, Nov 2000 This account was verified and updated on Feb 2006. ------------------------------- Mind you, it was never on my credit report until Jan 2006 even though it mentions cot, nov, dec 2006 and the huge gap between those dates and nov 2000. Again, as of today March 3, 2006 I have never received a single letter from either the dentist's office or the collection agency listed, not even after I spoke to them and as you mention, it has been 5 days and I was not aware as you say they have 5 days to send a letter. I have a strong feeling the letters will make it resolved Monday. I just wish I had cc'd the attorney so they know he is going to get a copy, but I did put Sinerely, my name, then underneith it my home phone number, and a fax number with xx attorney at law next to it, and after I printed it out, I handwrote his office's address underneigh it. I'll keep you posted. Thank you again. It feel really good having mailed those letters, and it is thanks to you otherwise I would not have thought of it.
