Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Very good Butch. Good Work! I searched for about 4 hours last night and all along it was in the Cass letter that I had been reading over and over again. Poor old me
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Yes Butch wins!!!!!! That is indeed the letter I was thinking of. I don't know why I thought it was Wollman. I'm going to lay down, this thread has my head spinning.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Well, I say that this last go around is frivolous anyway. The reason I say that is that in a sense they could be in a catch 22 position to start off with. If they don't put a derog on the credit report they are bound to do so when you dispute. If they do put on on and you dispute then they have to take it off or mark it as disputed. The whole point isn't really worth argueing about again because in order to catch them in some kind of error one would have to be pulling his credit reports daily and most people aren't going to do that. Only a comparatively few people who are on the internet and reading these boards would do that for the most part. By far, the greater majority of people don't even have a computer and have never pulled their own credit report in their entire life. Most of them don't even realize they can get their own credit reports. If I were to tell them they had to go buy a computer and get on line and pull their credit reports every day they would just about run out the door as fast as they could go. Back a page or so I posted a message outlining the importance of keeping good records and how to do it. There is even more to keeping good records than I was able to put in one message and I have to teach them all of that as well. I sit them down in an initial interview and go over all of that with them and then give them a workbook that I have developed that goes through the entire process and explains in great detail what they have to do and how to do it and then schedule a second conference a week or so later where we go over all of it again. By the time they get out of that first interview their heads are buzzing. But they often come into that initial interview with a hangdog look on their faces, ashamed of what they think they are going to admit about what they have done to their credit, how the bill collectors are hounding them to death and they are in a mental mess. When they walk out they look like they are about 10 feet tall. They are happy as larks and they know that although they didn't remember half of what I said they are now going to be in control of their financial lives and be able to put an end to their misery. But if I had to go into these little nit-picking details they would never come back for a second interview. In order for it to work it has to be simple and straightforward. Butch and the thread he started and has tried to keep going and on topic is and has been right on the money and he was doing a great job. I might have picked a couple of small bones with him but I sure didn't intend that his whole lesson plan would get derailed like this over back and forth arguments that are not going to help the average newbie or better. I say let Butch continue with his lessons because its very doubtful that creditnet has ever seen better teaching than Butch has been putting out.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Not to change the subject, but, according to the FCRA a disputed accont must be reported as same on the credit file...however, I have never seen any notation that states ' account disputed by consumer'. On another board I had read that one guy was told only creditor-viewed credit files will show items that are 'in dispute' and that such a notation will never show on the consumer version of a credit file...apparently he was told this by the CRA's themselves, who have also set up special tel. #'s he explained for consumers to call to see if any items are listed as 'disputed by consumer'. Has anyone here heard of such a thing?? I will try to find the post and place it here in a little while. But this would seem to put holes in the idea that info can be deleted based on an incomplete listing since 'in dispute' is not showing next to an account entry. Also, no one ever answered me on the question about a judgment...If I pull a copy of the judgment, and the 'satisified' date or 'filed' date do not match what is on the credit report, I should be able to have the info deleted because it is INACCURATE. For example, I am dealing with one right now that has a 'satisfied' date listing on Equifax as 05/97, when it was paid on 04/29/97 (documented in the court records). So if I forward this to the CRA so they delete, will they, or will they just update the satisified date, and then I am screwed because I validated the debt for them !! (which was in theory done when the judgment was paid anyhow).
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Now that is 180 degrees from your previous statements It's not THAT hard, and if you sign up for Equifax notifications, you don't have to do it every day! The majority of the people here don't pull their reports every day, but they are smarter than the average Bill....or is it Joe? Duhhh! Which is EXACTLY who we are talking to when we post here! Duh! Did you also know that only a few people who have drivers licenses and drive a car would ever go over the speed limit! Its amazing what people will do! Let me remind you that the MAJORITY of the people reading these boards are doing so on a computer! LOL, in fact, I would bet all of my money and yours that EVERYONE reading this right now is doing so on some sort of computer! LOL.......DUH #3! Thank the LORD, I tried that about 40 posts back, but some guy who thought he knew the law ended up creating a detour that kept people's heads spinning!...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? So why are you compounding the problem? DUH! DUH! DUH! DUH! DUH! ?????
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, ok, now I am truly confuse. I started off understanding most of what was being said, but somewhere I lost my way because of the bickering. I have a request that someone post a summery of this thread. There are so many good point being made that I think some of them are getting lost in the mix. Maybe the summary could be split into 1)Within 30-Days of 1st notice. 2)After the 30 days of first notice is up(this is whats interesting me) Keep up this great thread. AJ
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? They are allowed to correct the inaccuracy of dates...especially since you are the one providing the correct information for them. Why not dispute the dates as being inaccuarate and make them look it up and get the correct date themselves?! If they come back and say verified and yet the dates are still wrong you may have some leverage to use with them.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Butch, I thank you for your vote of confidence I shall never refer to my quests for knowledge and fact as "crazy" again! I feel so validated! ...LOL I have been entranced by this thread. A time bomb can not blast my behind out of bed to get to work on time Mon-Fri....but here I am wide awake since 4:30 am on a Saturday morning hanging on every word!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Although it may have seemed like bickering it should be rather obvious that someone invented a frivolous Rube Goldberg mousetrap for others to fall into for whatever ulterior motive which was most likely just to create hate and discontent. Some folks just love to do that. Makes them feel like intellectual giants I suppose. While I have not posted it I do have it in booklet form that I give away for free. Got a nice cover on it and its got a binder along the right side so it opens up just like a book. Covers all the above and much, much more. But I only provide it to real estate agents and mortgage brokers who then give it to those who want to buy a house but have bad credit. That's par for the course and that's why they have a few postings at the top of this board where the moderators put the good stuff so it don't get lost in the shuffle. I've got the exact same type of thing on my message board and its pretty extensive too. Lots of links to other websites, court decisions, phone numbers and addresses for creditors and collectors and much, much more. No single moderator has the time to do all the research and all the programming necessary to have all of the information people need to solve all their problems and so some boards have some of the information that is posted on other boards and some have information that can't be found anywhere else. There is so much information out there that no one system could possibly hold it all. There is one system run by the University of Berkely in California that is known as "the wayback machine" and supposedly has more than 900 terrabytes of hard drive space and have all the stuff posted on the internet since 1996 and it don't even come close to having it all. It can supposedly crawl the entire internet in 90 seconds retreving all the information out there and still it don't have it all. There is even an entire "underground" part of the internet that is totally hidden and you can't get into it unless you know how and how to get there isn't info that is widely distributed. I have some links to that part of the internet on my board too. But no single board or website can be all things to all people no matter how big or how good. That's the way it is with most folks. They finally wake up and realize that they have to do something to improve their credit after they have been beat up on for a fairly long period of time so they have to deal with the past, the present and the future and usually almost all at the same time. I think that the better parts of this thread ought to go up there at the top and made sticky so they don't get lost.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Great point Helpwanted. If Bill is going to rejoin this merry band he needs to post on topic and to the point. Letting his mouth run with excess verbiage and irrelevant points does no one any good. The goal isn't to stroke his ego but to put terms and issues in perspective so new people can understand and use the information.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? OMG! Here we go with another Bill Bauer ad! Stop the insanity some one!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? I don't know you pnwman and I have no beef with you but you have chosen to speak for "new" people. I, being a new person do not share in your opinion. I have no problem understanding anything discussed so far. Furthermore, I can only hope that this thread can continue in spite of the monkey wrenches that seem to be hurled into it. What I find as being "excess verbiage and irrelevant points" are posts like yours. Just because you do not see the relevancy does not mean it isn't there.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? While all that is true, the real problem is that the reports given to the consumer does not reveal the whole truth. Because I work with mortgage brokers and real estate agents I get to see the tri-merge reports as well as the consumer's version. While they are essentially the same, even tri-merge reports from one broker may not be the same as the identical consumer's tri-merge pulled by another broker and most usually aren't. That's because different brokers use different companies to pull consumer reports and then compile them into a tri-merge so one company may leave out information another includes. One such very important illustration to the consumer is the DOLA or Date OF Last Activity. I have yet to see that on any consumer's report and some tri-merges show that and some don't. And that is really really important to some consumers in some situations especially when a listed derog has aged some and maybe sold or transferred through several different collectors who may or may not have caused the debt to reage which is highly illegal. Most of the time the consumer is left to figure out the DOLA for themselves and that's probably why its deliberately not revealed to consumers who would then sometimes have the legal ammunition to sue the living daylights out of the offender. So I must assume that CRAs deliberately conceal that date to the best of their ability from consumers in order to protect their paying customers, the creditors and collectors. FTC has been on the prowl looking to curb violations dealing with that subject and some time back fined a collection agency in California $2 million for doing just that. Reageing the debts. They ended up letting them off the hook with a Cease & Desist agreement because the $2 million would have bankrupted the company and put them out of business. In my not so humble opinion America would have been better off bleeding them dry and using the money to fire a missile at Saddam H. even if it just ended up killing his pet camel than we are with that loose cannon bill collector mucking about but that's just my personal opinion. Seems to me that if FTC really wanted to stop the miserable act of reageing people's debts they would force the credit bureaus to put that date on the consumer's credit report in plain sight for all to see.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? I agree Kathycmh! I have printed out this thread (minus the irrelevant stuff) as it unfolds, and the information is fantastic! I for one am very greatful for the many folks who are so willing to share their knowledge! There are two sides to a coin and I appreciate seeing both sides! Good, Bad, or indifferent, this has been yet another excellant and informative thread for me! Tuit
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: --> What Is Validation? Kathy You are NOT the typical new person here who has no idea what a tradeline is or the difference between a CA and a OC. You are very familiar both with credit terms and processes perhaps more than most veterans here. I've forgotten what business you work at but again you are not a typical new person. Bill posts some great stuff and I personally thank him for that. Sometimes it feels like I have to sift through 50 lines to get to 1 relevant one. If no one else had ever pointed this out I would have just put him on ignore, but that is not the case. pnwman <Official Monkey Wrench
Re: pwnman, I appreciate your posts, and I'm happy about your success using the Nutcase letter, but your criticisms of Bill are really unwarranted. You have very limited history, so you shouldn't even begin to speak for this board or for newcomers or for old folks or anybody else except yourself. As for what you called Bill's "ad," let me fill you in on some history. The previous board monitor (pbm) specifically said that people like Bill or Creditsense or Kristy W or any number of other people who offer credit-related services and consultation are welcome to post here so long as the bulk of their participation is not centered upon client-seeking. Many of these people, Bill included, provoke stimulating and intelligent conversation about very relevant issues. All you have to do is reread this thread to know that's true, irrrespective of who you think is talking sense or not. "Being right" is not a requirement for participation here, btw. The truth hopefully emerges as a result of the interplay. Doc
Re: Doc makes some great points. While I think I may have had a valuable point, my tone was hostile and unkind to say the least. In my opinion, it was totally uncalled for. I have sent Bill a private apology and would also like to publicly apologize. I plan on keeping a better reign on my attitudue and words to board members I disagree with.
