Who Is Responsible?

I'm not sure I can give you an answer on this one but will explain my situation about divorce decrees and tell you what kind of problems I'm having.

My ex and I had a joint charge card - me being primary and him being secondary on the card. In my divorce decree, it states that he is liable and responsible for the charge card debt and will not hold me liable or responsible. Little did I know after the fact, that if he doesn't pay, I'm still responsible. The charge card company was not party to our property settlement agreement therefore they are coming after me.

I can go after my ex-husband for contempt of court but I just found out that he recently got his car repossessed and is not paying any of his bills. So what do I go after - nothing at this point. I am in a bind right now because I don't have the money to pay the bill. I just fired off my validation letter today to the CA because I was never notified of this charge card being delinquent. The charge card bills were going to his address and so were the CA letters.

 

Well, if she listed you but you signed nothing - in my opinion, your not liable.

I'm fairly new to this site and I am getting alot of information that I didn't know about. If it wasn't for this site and the people who helped, I don't know where I would be today.

I'm sure someone would be able to give you better insite on this situation and turn you in the right direction.

I'm glad I'm divorced but not glad I am liable for things I thought I wasn't liable for. I wish that the courts or someone would make it manditory for us to go to some type of property settlement class on what needs to be done even before we proceed with the final paper signing. This would definitely save alot of us the aggrivation and money we don't have dealing with things like this in our situation and make the lawyers poor.

 

Whn were the debts incurred by your wife? How old was your son when the debts were incurred for his medical care? Was your divorce final before she incurred the debts for the pregnancy? Were the debts incurred after filing for divorce? Was there a separation agreement prior to the divorce being final?

You're probably going to have to get a lawyer on this one. A lot of this is going to be driven by state law. But the questions above may well be important in determining the answer.

 

And on, and on, and on, and on, and on

Sometimes people present with situations which are well beyond the scope of what can be done here on CN. In these instances we try to be quick to just let someone know that it would be wise to just go consult with an Atty.. This is Cannoda's point, which I think is right on.

Mainly because the issues that you bring up have a great deal to do with state law. Around here we usually talk federal.


With this in mind I DID try to find some answers for you, but didn't have all that much luck.

I did find an interesting item of case law tho.

http://www.law.emory.edu/11circuit/dec98/97-8023.man.html

United States Court of Appeals,
Eleventh Circuit.
No. 97-8023.
William D. LOCKARD, Plaintiff-Appellant,

v.

EQUIFAX, INC., a Georgia Corporation, et al., Defendants,

Lockard's wife was admitted to the Baton Rouge General Medical Center (BR Medical) twice for treatment in 1992. At the time of both admissions, Lockard and his wife were married but separated. For both admissions, Mrs. Lockard used her husband's insurance policy provided by Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Massachusetts (Blue Cross). Blue Cross paid the portions for which it was responsible, leaving balances of $1,523.75 for the first admission and $1,117.46 for the second.

When the first balance was not paid, BR Medical turned the account over to Southern Credit Recovery, Inc. (Southern Credit) for collection as a bad debt, listing appellant as the responsible party. Southern Credit mailed a computer tape containing information about this debt to Equifax, Inc. (Equifax) in Georgia. Months later, appellant sent Southern Credit a letter of dispute, stating he was not responsible for the debt. Southern Credit notified General Health Systems, Inc. (General Health), BR Medical's owner, about appellant's letter. General Health claimed that appellant was removed as the responsible party for the first balance.

When the second balance was not paid, BR Medical turned the account over to Certified Bureau of the South (Certified Bureau) for collection as a bad debt, again listing appellant as the responsible party. Lockard notified Certified Bureau that he was not responsible for the debt, and Certified Bureau claimed that it contacted Baton Rouge General Health Center (BR Health) about the dispute, received authorization to remove appellant as the responsible party, and informed the Credit Bureau of Baton Rouge, Inc. of the change. General Health, however, states that it knew nothing about the second account until this lawsuit.


Although this case is not technically about your specific issue (as it's a case against Eq.) I do find this above underlined rather interesting.

In the instance of BOTH bills Baton Rouge General quickly eliminated the Plaintiff as responsible party upon the receipt of a dispute asserting same, EVEN THOUGH LOCKARD AND HIS WIFE WERE TECHNICALLY MARRIED AT THE TIME.


This might be a state idiosyncrasy. That's why you need to see an Atty.

Good luck, keep us posted.

 

You didnt sign any of these credit applications or joint accounts.. But you found time to sign over your child, as if he was a used car.. Sorry that disgusts me.. I can not offer any advice to a person that would do this.. NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE..

Call me a ******* or troll.. But that is pathetic.. Dont want to pay your bills, or for your kid.. jesus.. Need a 750FICO to get a decent credit limit and APR with AMEX but anyone can make a baby.. God help us..

I am not going to try and Hijack this thread with my thoughts and beliefs.. I stated what I wanted too.. and wont again reply to this thread or remarks regarding my post.. out of respect for the board and its members .. Sorry guys and gals

 

Okay, here's my take...

I was legally sep from husb...had a court order stating all debts from here on out will be separate and comm prop liabilities and assets would be divided at later date. Divorce took 1.5 years.Las month, ex called and said he was served and that they were looking for me.

This debt was incurred while we were still married, but after the court order separated all debts from that day forward.

In most cases, creditors don't care about a divorce decree. Debts are contracts between you and them, not between 2 married people. However, the fact you didn't sign anything is a big factor...especially since court docs state each one of you is separately responsible for your own debts since the sep date.

Not sure how much help this is.

 

If it were me, I would talk to a consumer law attorney before a BK attorney. I don't know anything about fraud, but it almost sounds like your ex committed fraud when she made you guarantor, knowing that you weren't.

 

My reading of your responses to my questions is that you are NOT responsible for your ex's debt and that she committed fraud for which she can be sued.

However, you are likely responsible for the medical expenses of your son.

I would validate and make them provide an itemized list of charges with respect to your son. While you are liable to third parties for NECESSARY medical care for your son, you may have the right to recover all or some of it from your ex.

If you are going to handle it yourself, I would draft a letter outlining the law as you did here. Reference the language in your divorce decree as proof of your separation from your ex. And I would probably threaten to sue if they don't delete their listing within x number of days.

I still think you should find an attorney, though.

 

Another question - Did she disclose the existence of her medical bills or your son's in the divorce proceeding?

Her failure to disclose this might be enough to gum up any adoption proceedings and to get your divorce reopened.

 

What does your final divorce decree specify in terms of medical insurance responsibility for your son. Did the court assign this responsibility to you or your ex-wife? Did your wife & son or just your son qualify for and receive continued insurance coverage through any COBRA plan from your employer? If so who according to the divorce decree was responsible for payment of the premium?

 

I know you are not in Ohio however you may read the statute from the Ohio Revised Code which I have pasted below. You may want to research your own state laws as well.

Anyone living in Ohio with a minor child who's ex is not fulfilling his/her obligation for medical insurance and payment may find the following information useful:

§ 1349.01 Former spouse, children and person responsible for children not liable for medical costs where responsible party fails to obtain health insurance.
Text of Statute


(A) As used in this section:


(1) "Consumer reporting agency" has the same meaning as in the "Fair Credit Reporting Act," 84 Stat. 1128, 15 U.S.C.A. 1681a.

(2) "Court" means the division of the court of common pleas having jurisdiction over actions for divorce, annulment, dissolution of marriage, legal separation, child support, or spousal support.

(3) "Health insurance coverage" means hospital, surgical, or medical expense coverage provided under any health insurance or health care policy, contract, or plan or any other health benefits arrangement.

(4) "Provider" has the same meaning as in section 3902.11 of the Revised Code.
(B) If, pursuant to an action for divorce, annulment, dissolution of marriage, or legal separation, the court determines that a party who is a resident of this state is responsible for obtaining health insurance coverage for the party's former spouse or children or if, pursuant to a child support order issued in accordance with sections 3119.30 to 3119.58 of the Revised Code, the court requires a party who is a resident of this state to obtain health insurance coverage for the children who are the subject of the child support order, and the party fails to obtain such coverage, no provider or collection agency shall collect or attempt to collect from the former spouse, children, or person responsible for the children, any reimbursement of any hospital, surgical, or medical expenses incurred by the provider for services rendered to the former spouse or children, which expenses would have been covered but for the failure of the party to obtain the coverage, if the former spouse, any of the children, or a person responsible for the children, provides the following to the provider or collection agency:


(1) A copy of the court order requiring the party to obtain health insurance coverage for the former spouse or children.

(2) Reasonable assistance in locating the party and obtaining information about the party's health insurance coverage.

(C) If the requirements of divisions (B)(1) and (2) of this section are not met, the provider or collection agency may collect the hospital, surgical, or medical expenses both from the former spouse or person responsible for the children and from the party who failed to obtain the coverage. If the requirements of divisions (B)(1) and (2) are met, the provider or collection agency may collect or attempt to collect the expenses only from the party.
A party required to obtain health insurance coverage for a former spouse or children who fails to obtain the coverage is liable to the provider for the hospital, surgical, or medical expenses incurred by the provider as a result of the failure to obtain the coverage. This section does not prohibit a former spouse or person responsible for the children from initiating an action to enforce the order requiring the party to obtain health insurance for the former spouse or children or to collect any amounts the former spouse or person responsible for the children pays for hospital, surgical, or medical expenses for which the party is responsible under the order requiring the party to obtain health insurance for the former spouse or children.


(D)(1) If the requirements of divisions (B)(1) and (2) of this section are met, both of the following restrictions shall apply:

(a) No collection agency or provider of hospital, surgical, or medical services may report to a consumer reporting agency, for inclusion in the credit file or credit report of the former spouse or person responsible for the children, any information relative to the nonpayment of expenses for the services incurred by the provider, if the nonpayment is the result of the failure of the party responsible for obtaining health insurance coverage to obtain health insurance coverage.

(b) No consumer reporting agency shall include in the credit file or credit report of the former spouse or person responsible for the children, any information relative to the nonpayment of any hospital, surgical, or medical expenses incurred by a provider as a result of the party's failure to obtain the coverage.
(2) If the requirements of divisions (B)(1) and (2) of this section are not met, both of the following provisions shall apply:


(a) A provider of hospital, surgical, or medical services, or a collection agency, may report to a consumer reporting agency, for inclusion in the credit file or credit report of the former spouse or person responsible for the children, any information relative to the nonpayment of expenses for the services incurred by the provider, if the nonpayment is the result of the failure of the party responsible for obtaining health insurance coverage to obtain such coverage.

(b) A consumer reporting agency may include in the credit file or credit report of the former spouse or person responsible for the children, any information relative to the nonpayment of any hospital, surgical, or medical expenses incurred by the provider, if the nonpayment is the result of the failure of the party responsible for obtaining health insurance coverage to obtain such coverage.

(3)(a) A provider of hospital, surgical, or medical services, or a collection agency, may report to a consumer reporting agency, for inclusion in the credit file or credit report of that party, any information relative to the nonpayment of expenses for the services incurred by the provider, if the nonpayment is the result of the failure of the party responsible for obtaining health insurance coverage to obtain such coverage.

(b) A consumer reporting agency may include in the credit file or credit report of the party responsible for obtaining health insurance coverage, any information relative to the nonpayment of any hospital, surgical, or medical expenses incurred by a provider, if the nonpayment is the result of the failure of that party to obtain health insurance coverage.
(4) If any information described in division (D)(2) of this section is placed in the credit file or credit report of the former spouse or person responsible for the children, the consumer reporting agency shall remove the information from the credit file and credit report if the former spouse or person responsible for the children provides the agency with the information required in divisions (B)(1) and (2) of this section. If the agency fails to remove the information from the credit file or credit report pursuant to the terms of the "Fair Credit Reporting Act," 84 Stat. 1128, 15 U.S.C. 1681a, within a reasonable time after receiving the information required by divisions (B)(1) and (2) of this section, the former spouse may initiate an action to require the agency to remove the information.


If any information described in division (D)(3) of this section is placed in the party's credit file or credit report, the party has the burden of proving that the party is not responsible for obtaining the health insurance coverage or, if responsible, that the expenses incurred are not covered expenses. If the party meets that burden, the agency shall remove the information from the party's credit file and credit report immediately. If the agency fails to remove the information from the credit file or credit report immediately after the party meets the burden, the party may initiate an action to require the agency to remove the information.

 

Hi,

I'll chime in with my .02. First, you need to see a family law attorney in your state.

The question of your liability is going to hinge directly on the way the law in your state works.

For instance, California (my state) is a community property state. The marital community is responsible for debts incurred up to the point of separation with the intent to "stay separated". Usually, debt incurred by her after this point are her own problem and the separation agreement you have nails this home.

HOWEVER: If you were in CA, you might be liable for the 21k in medical bills for your son, INCURRED AFTER SEPARATION BUT BEFORE DISSOLUTION OF MARRIAGE because they are "necessaries". Your separation agreement may let you dodge this one but on the other hand, a court might find that portion of the agreement to have no effect for the same reason that many states don't allow you to contract away your child support obligation in a premarital agreement. There's obviously a strong public policy reasoning behind keeping both parents on the hook for reasonable medical expenses (if only one was liable, a parent might be more likely not to get their child the appropriate care, etc)

What I'm trying to say is that the answer is going to be very specific to your state and will likely involve some digging into the case law.

If I were in your shoes, I'd call the local bar association and shell out $40 for a 30 min consult with a practicing family law attorney in your state.

HTH.