Can't find estoppel

Its the 5th or 6th post on the Credit Talk forum.

It says "Unofficial Creditnet FAQ"

read it in its entirety! You'll find it!

 

It's here. Read the first paragraph of the letter to confirm....

http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&pgnum=1&postid=85492#post85492

 

Also realize you will likely need to update and customize letter to your situation. Good luck.

 

why should he change the letter? Is it to appear "legit"? You'd have to change the letter significantly, to have it NOT be recognized! Its not like it makes that much of a difference anyhow. The Collection agencies don't send us a personalized letter, why should I send them anything else? Its worked for me...............

 

lol@Bill Bauer. He's trying to lure you into his trap of $50 a month. It works, it WILL WORK, because your main objective is the intent to sue. All others leading up to it will mean little. But when you threaten to sue, you should be ready to sue! The CA's probably do know this letter. But perhaps they don't.

 

Now you're getting close to a semi-comlpex issue which is still being debated. Bauers argument is basically that the "Engelhardt v Gravens" case fails to establish the appropriate Estoppel doctrine we need in Credit Correction. The argument in the case had to do with the right of way to some land. Whether it does or doesn't I'm personally not sure because we can't find the case on the net for careful study. I heard that Bill may have put the case on his site, PLEASE let me know if this is true.

Anyway, rather than risk the chance of being wrong on this technical point, I'd just take the legal reference out altogether. You are just a consumer, it's not necessary for you to be quoting cites anyway. The basic doctrine of Estoppel By Silence IS intact so feel free to use the letter.

The only other thing I'd do is remove the last line which states;

"I affirm under penalty of perjury under the Laws of the Land for the United States of America, that the foregoing is true and correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief."

Now why in the world would you need to swear under penalty of perjury that what you're saying is correct?

It's just not necessary and might come back to haunt.

But everybodies right, it does work. So when you're at that point with your adversary, fire away.






RE: Dispute Letter of <insert date>

Dear Sir/Madame:

As I have not heard back from you in over 60 days regarding my notice of dispute dated <insert date>, and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence. I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists.

In a good faith effort to resolve this matter amicably, I restate my demand for proof of the debt, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature, as well as proof of your authority in this matter. Absent such proof, you must terminate this collection action and correct any erroneous reports of this debt as mine.

For the record, I state again that as I have no account with you, nor am I your customer, nor have I entered into a contract with you, I must ask for the following information:



Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter.

What is your authorization of law for your collection of information?

What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt?

Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of Florida.

Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature.


You have fifteen (15) days from receipt of this notice to respond. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, hand signed, and in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you sent your letter(s) in error, and that this matter is permanently closed.

Your continued silence is unacceptable. Either provide the proof or correct the record to remove the invalid debt from my credit files with the three primary credit-reporting agencies. You are currently in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Act.

Failure to respond within 15 days of receipt of this registered letter will result in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $5,000 in damages for the following:



Defamation

Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud

Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act


After obtaining the judgment against your company, I will obtain a Writ of Execution from the Sheriffâ??s office in your county and I will begin the process of attaching property or funds to satisfy the judgment.

For the purposes of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status.


Sincerely,



BTW - Sassyinaz, is sort of an expert on this one. She's posted numerous insights at the following threads;

1) http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...1&highlight="engelhardt+v+Gravens"#post253991

2) http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...2&highlight="engelhardt+v+Gravens"#post185132

3) http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...8&highlight="engelhardt+v+Gravens"#post184268

Here (3), Sassy brings up a great point;

"The estoppel doctrine goes further than just real estate however, in my humblest of sassy opinions anyway, based on the research I did. It's not exclusive to real estate which is why it seems to work so well in the context that it is used here, though I think the citation is getting over-used and wish people would tweak the sample letters as a matter of practice just to keep them fresh so the letters themselves don't become something that creditors start flagging."


Also, Bauer was terminated from CN for activity similar to Greg Fisher. I like Bill myself. He's a cantankerous old fart but ya know ... the older I get the more I relate to him. LOL

He's not always right. But then again, who is?


Some of the letters in the Letter Library do need a little work. I'm gonna take a survey soon to see if the pro's agree, so we can petition Kaliban to let us do some [minor] revisions.

Good luck, keep us posted.



BTW - How did he ever recover from his fire, and did he ever say anything more about the info. that was stolen?

 

.

 

OH ... just one other minor issue. In the middle of the Estoppel letter are the following grounds for filing a lawsuit;



Defamation

Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud

Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act


The one in the middle might be troublesome, (Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud).

If your dispute is that the account simply is not yours ok. But here you indicate identity fraud, and now they have it from you in writing.

What often happens then is that they'll send you an Affidavit Of Fraud to fill out and have notarized. When that happens we have a strong tendency NOT to comply. Now you WOULD be swearing under penalty of perjury. Let's avoid that delimna entirely by replacing that line with;


Defamation

Willful, Negligent Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act


(Willful, Negligent is good. It's the actual verbiage found in the FCRA).

That's all ya need. Unless of course it IS a fraud case and you're prepared for their affidavit.

But don't do that unless it really is.

 

Is it OK to send the estoppel letter, after the 30 day validation letter get no response?
Do you have to wait 60 days like the letter says at the begining.
I'm using Kims letters from the Fair Credit movement web site. should i just use her 15 day letter or send the estoppel letter?

thanks for all the posts.

 

Do you have to wait 60 days like the letter says No,just change the 60 to 30 =See copy of letter below!

Your Name»
«Address1»
«Address2»
«City», «State» «Zip»

«Company»
«Address1»
«Address2»
«City», «State» «Zip»

«Date»

RE: Dispute Letter of <insert date>

Dear Sir/Madame:

As I have not heard back from you in over 30 days regarding my notice of dispute dated <insert date>, and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence, Engelhardt v Gravens (Mo) 281 SW 715, 719, I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists.

In a good faith effort to resolve this matter amicably, I restate my demand for proof of the debt, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature, as well as proof of your authority in this matter. Absent such proof, you must terminate this collection action and correct any erroneous reports of this debt as mine.

For the record, I state again that as I have no account with you, nor am I your customer, nor have I entered into a contract with you, I must ask for the following information:



Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter.

What is your authorization of law for your collection of information?

What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt?

Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of Florida.

Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature.


You have fifteen (15) days from receipt of this notice to respond. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, hand signed, and in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you sent your letter(s) in error, and that this matter is permanently closed.

Your continued silence is unacceptable. Either provide the proof or correct the record to remove the invalid debt from my credit files with the three primary credit-reporting agencies. You are currently in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Act.

Failure to respond within 15 days of receipt of this registered letter will result in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $5,000 in damages for the following:



Defamation

Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud

Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act


After obtaining the judgment against your company, I will obtain a Writ of Execution from the Sheriffâ??s office in your county and I will begin the process of attaching property or funds to satisfy the judgment.

For the purposes of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status.

I affirm under penalty of perjury under the Laws of the Land for the United States of America, that the foregoing is true and correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Sincerely,

«Signature»
«Your Name»

___________________