My Target Visa shows as a Credit Card and it's a new line. So I'm not sure why TU was counting it as "Retail" debt. My oldest open tradeline is kind of a cheat (but it works), being AU on wife's Sears Gold Mastercard gives me her open date, it's 13 years old. My oldest closed tradeline is 18 years old. I have some that are showing open, that are really closed. I haven't gotten around disputing them yet because I'm fine with my score and don't want to chance it. ME: TU Score 873 YOU HAVE BEEN IN OUR FILES SINCE: 03/1984 (Codes M=Mortgage,R=Revolving,I=Installment,L=Lease) Card Type Code Opened C.Limit Balance Status Open/Closed(date) ----------- --- ------- ------- ------- ------ ------ DISCOVER R 02/2001 $3500 $0 AU Open Wifes Card RETAIL 1 R 01/1994 $100 $0 INDIVI Open Don't Ask, its old so I keep it RETAIL 2 R 10/1995 $300 $0 INDIVI Open CAR LOAN 1 I 09/2000 $33313 $23874 INDIVI Open VISA 1 R 02/2002 $3500 $113 INDIVI Open Really $0 Bal VISA 2 R 11/2001 $12500 $54 INDIVI Open Really $0 Bal VISA 3 R 06/1991 $18500 $2088 AU Open Wifes Card GOLD MC 1 R 04/1989 $9800 $0 AU Open Wifes Card MASTERCARD 1 R 06/1995 $4000 $0 INDIVI Open Shows open,really closed MASTERCARD 2 R 07/1994 $4000 $0 INDIVI Open Stolen, shows open, duh! MORTGAGE 1 M 06/2001 $44000 $43868 JOINT Open AMEXGOLD R 04/1993 $0 $0 INDIVI 08/1997 LEASE 1 L 07/1996 $26233 $0 INDIVI 08/2000 MASTERCARD 3 R 09/1986 $1000 $0 INDIVI 09/1995 VISA 4 R 07/1994 $900 $0 INDIVI 02/1999 Closed by Grantor, UNRATED CAR LOAN 2 I 09/1991 $11750 $0 JOINT 02/1995 CAR LOAN 3 I 03/1995 $6275 $0 UNDESI 10/1995 Secured, UNDESIGNATED status RETAIL 3 R 03/1984 $340 $0 INDIVI 09/1992 First card ever, MonkeyWards [EDIT] Sorry, my formatting didn't work!! Hard Inquiries -------------- 06/11/2001 INDIVIDUAL 04/27/2001 INDIVIDUAL 11/24/2000 INDIVIDUAL 08/09/2000 INDIVIDUAL Score and Reason codes: YOUR CREDIT SCORE: 873 MINIMUM POSSIBLE SCORE:+150 MAXIMUM POSSIBLE SCORE:+934 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FACTOR 1: TOO MANY RECENT INQUIRIES: EXCESSIVE INQUIRIES HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON YOUR CREDIT SCORE. LIMITING THE NUMBER OF CREDIT APPLICATIONS YOU COMPLETE MAY IMPROVE YOUR CREDIT SCORE FACTOR 2: LENGTH OF TIME SINCE OLDEST MORTGAGE ACCOUNT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED IS TOO SHORT: LONGER MORTGAGE CREDIT HISTORIES PROVIDE MORE PAYMENT BEHAVIOR INFORMATION. MAKING PROMPT PAYMENTS OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME ON THE SAME ACCOUNTS MAY IMPROVE YOUR CREDIT SCORE. FACTOR 3: LENGTH OF TIME ACCOUNTS HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED IS TOO SHORT: LONGER CREDIT HISTORIES PROVIDE MORE PAYMENT BEHAVIOR INFORMATION. MAKING PROMPT PAYMENTS OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME ON THE SAME ACCOUNTS MAY IMPROVE YOUR CREDIT SCORE. FACTOR 4: TOO MANY ACTIVE ACCOUNTS WITH A BALANCE: YOUR CREDIT REPORT REFLECTS SEVERAL ACCOUNTS WITH BALANCES, WHICH HAS A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON YOUR CREDIT SCORE.
My oldest account is 10/93, my old Dayton's Card. I had my dad's bankruptcy on my credit report for a number of years that's why most credit lines are in the last few years. I took out a lot of installment loans and paid them off in an effort to establish credit. I only have one loan not showing closed that should be. I have three acct (besides mortgage) showing a balance. The Retail 1 card with the $401 bal I paid off yesterday. Like you, I have 5k hiding in my Amex LOC @ 7.74%. BTW, what did you get for a limit on that, I got 7k. I incremented the numbers for all Visa/MC/AmexBlue cards being they are all treated the same. * All accounts are individual Score = 784 You have been in our files since: 10/1993 Card Type Code Opened C.Limit Balance Status Open/Closed(date) ----------- --- ------- ------- ------- ------ ------ RETAIL 1 R 11/96 $1100 $401 Open RETAIL 2 R 2/97 $600 $0 Closed 8/99 VISA 1 R 7/97 $2900 $0 Open MC 2 2/98 $27000 $0 Open LOC 1 R 6/98 $1000 $0 Open LOC 2 R 7/97 $1000 $0 Open RETAIL 3 R 12/98 $1200 $0 Closed 10/01 CAR LOAN 1 I 11/00 $16000 $0 Closed 8/01 VISA 3 R 12/98 $9000 $0 Open MORTGAGE 1 M 10/01 $128000 $119685 Open RETAIL 4 R 11/01 $3900 $0 Open AmEx Blue 4 R 5/00 $15800 $0 Open RETAIL 5 R 8/93 $2000 $31 Open VISA 5 R 9/98 $25000 $83 Open VISA 6 R 4/99 $7000 $0 Closed 11/01 LOC 3 R 1/02 $10000 $0 Closed 1/02 Unsec LOAN 1 I 4/99 $2500 $0 Closed 3/00 CAR LOAN 2 I 8/99 $12000 $0 Closed 3/00 Unsec LOAN 2 I 2/00 $7500 $0 Closed 5/00 Mastercard 7 R 2/98 $500 $0 Closed 11/98 Unsec LOAN 3 I 3/98 $2500 $0 Closed 8/99 CAR LOAN 3 I 7/98 $11387 $0 Closed 8/99 Unsec LOAN 4 I 8/99 $2691 $0 Closed 9/99 LOC 4 R 2/99 $0 $0 Closed 02/00 CAR LOAN 4 I 5/98 $5700 $0 Closed Showing Open Hard Inq ---------- 11/01 Credit Card 9/01 Mortgage 9/01 Mortgage 8/01 Auto Insurance 9/00 Loan 6/00 Credit Card Reason codes ---------------- Factor 1: RETAIL ACCOUNT BALANCES ARE TOO HIGH IN PROPORTION TO CREDIT LIMITS CONSUMERS HAVING HIGH BALANCES ON THESE ACCOUNTS IN RELATION TO THE CREDIT LIMITS ARE MORE LIKELY OF FUTURE DELINQUENCY. LOWERING YOUR BALANCES ON THESE ACCOUNTS MAY IMPROVE YOUR CREDIT SCORE. Factor 2: TOO MANY RECENT INQUIRIES EXCESSIVE INQUIRIES HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON YOUR CREDIT SCORE. LIMITING THE NUMBER OF CREDIT APPLICATIONS YOU COMPLETE MAY IMPROVE YOUR CREDIT SCORE Factor 3: TOO MANY RECENTLY OPENED ACCOUNTS YOUR CREDIT REPORT REFLECTS A NUMBER OF RECENTLY OPENED ACCOUNTS, WHICH HAS A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON YOUR CREDIT SCORE. LIMITING THE NUMBER OF NEW ACCOUNTS MAY IMPROVE YOUR CREDIT SCORE. Factor 4: TOO MANY INQUIRIES EXCESSIVE INQUIRIES ON THE CREDIT REPORT HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON YOUR CREDIT SCORE. LIMITING THE NUMBER OF CREDIT APPLICATIONS YOU COMPLETE MAY IMPROVE YOUR CREDIT SCORE. Now that I have my info done, I'm going to do some comparing to see if anything stands out. I counting up our number of each type of acct closed and open and bals to try to come up with a generalized comparison.
Abbreviated comparison....... PAT Been in files since 3/84 Type of acct # C.Limits Balances Retail Open 2 $400 $0 Retail Closed 1 $340 $0 Credit Open 7 $55800 $2255 Credit Closed 3 $1900 $0 LOCs Open 0 $0 $0 LOCs Closed 0 $0 $0 AutoL Open 1 $33313 $23874 AutoL Closed 2 $18025 $0 UnsecL Open 0 $0 $0 UnsecL Closed 0 $0 $0 Mortg Open 1 $44000 $43868 Lease Closed 1 $26233 $0 Jason Been in files since 10/93 Type of acct # C.Limits Balances Retail Open 3 $7000 $401 Retail Closed 2 $1800 $0 Credit Open 5 $79700 $83 Credit Closed 2 $7500 $0 LOCs Open 2 $2000 $0 LOCs Closed 2 $10000 $0 AutoL Open 1 $5700 $0 AutoL Closed 3 $39387 $0 UnsecL Open 0 $0 $0 UnsecL Closed 4 $15191 $0 Mortg Open 1 $128000 $119685 So..... you have 2 open retail cards to my 3 you have 7 open credit cards to my 5 you have 0 lines of credit to my 2 (excl. Amex of course) we both are showing 1 open auto loan although my should be closed we both have 1 open mortgage, although mine is much larger and opened 4 months later our # of closed accounts are simular except for my 4 closed unsecured loans and your closed lease Your time that you've been on file has to have a huge impact Your closed Lease may be helping your "credit mix" Note: That $10000 LOC I used to increase my MBNA Credit Card limit, that is why it was only open 1 day I like your oldest open tradeline cheat. I wonder about the impact. I noticed you didn't trigger any "too many revolving acct" or simular. Your exessive inquires reason is BS. My factors are a little off right now. I usally have the length of time accts established as my #1 reason. Besides inquires, the two things hurting me is the $401 bal on Retail1 and the fact my Sears card was opened only 4 months ago. The bal will be off next month and hopefully the impact from Sears will be lessened after 6 months. So Pat, where do you see the 100 points coming from?
Nice job on the analysis Well, Jason, if I had to guess and I am. I'd say that the biggest hit is probably your #1 reason code (I'm a brainiac, i know . Since we know that even if you had close to a perfect score they would still give you 4 reason codes why your score isn't higher. I would assume then that some of these #1 reasons (all reasons really) are weighted heavier than others on how many points they hit you for. Since my Target showed up as too high of a retail balance and that hit me for almost 90 points recently. I'm going to guess that a big chunk of the 100 is there. The lease might help some, as you said, so we'll credit a few points there for MIX. What I don't understand is, my #2 reason is "Length of Time of Mortgage account". Your's is 4 months "newer", yet it doesn't hit your reason codes. So would I be safe guessing that all 4 of your reason codes hit for more than that? Neither one of us (in our opinions, which don't matter on score apparently) have excessive inquiries. But I can't see all of yours being over 20 pts. You have one in the last 6mos, I have none. So in summary(and much guessing), I'm going with. Retail balance (50-70pts) Total Age of Credit file and Mix (5 - 15pts) Inquiries 6 mos (5 pts) New Accts (10 - 20pts)
Hey Pat, I agree with everything you say. Nice job with accessing that my #1 reason code is my biggest hit . I find it very interesting that the points lost from inq, retail bal, and inquires(x2) was greater than my credit file age. Being that the age reason was usually on top, those other must really be nailing me. I will be pulling my report after the $400 retail balance falls off in April. Then we will see where I am at. I would really love to see the 50-70 points for the retail acct @ $0 but my guess is that 825 or so is the best that I will score in the short term. I hope I'm wrong. I think this was pretty cool. I will update this thread in April for sure when my $400 retail falls off. If you ever want to do this again, let me know. Thanks for taking the time to do all this.
No problem. It was pretty cool Your welcome and thanks to you to. I'm expecting my MBNA Elite Rewards Platinum Plus card any day now. I'm curious to see what it does to my score when it hits. I'll update when it does.
Congrats on the MBNA Elite RPP. I'll be curious too. I wouldn't be surprised if it to trigged the "too many revolving accts" and "too many recently opened accts" reason codes. But...we will see. Good points: Another ontime credit line Improves you debt to credit ratio Bad points: Another revolving acct A recently opened acct Looking forward to your next update.
J, Here it is. It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. The MBNA card is reporting and my score only dropped 5 pts, to an 868. I've got the new inquiry from MBNA and the new tradeline reporting. They "most graciously" report it as "PAID OR PAYING AS AGREED". They did this on my EX as well (Is this a courtesy or an oops?). I think this is main reason I'm not taking a big score hit. My reason codes remain exactly the same.
Hey Pat, I am plesently surprised as well. I really expected quite a score hit. Your credit file length must be buffering you or something. But anyways, that's great. Your making me want to apply for another card as well. Speaking of that, let me get your recommendation. I have in order of highest credit lines: MBNA Quantum 9.9%f Citi Plat Select Prime+1.65v (planning on going for the P+0.9% one of these days) AmEx Blue 9.9%f Target Visa 9.9%f (was auto upgrade from guest card) Wells Fargo 12.65%v thinking about: CitiUSA HHonors Signature Visa PreApproved Capital One 8.9% Fixed No fee cash advs @ 8.9% Fixed too BankOne 7.9% Fixed Bank of America I can't get any add'l credit line out of Citi NA, MBNA, and Amex. I don't really care for what I have heard about BankOne/FirstUSA. I was considering Chase, but they've started screwing around with their fixed rates. The Capital One was looking good. Been hearing great things about BofA. Which there was a good Prime for Life card out there without an annual fee. That would get my attension. If you were me Pat, what would you be looking at? Just curious. Have a great weekend,
I think I'd avoid the BankOne 7.99, its got two-cycle billing, which would probably outweigh the rate. The only reason I have a BankOne card is because my wife works there. It gets us half a percent off the fixed rate and it's got a 16k limit, so I keep it. I have one Citi card and I do like them, also it has an 18k limit, another keeper. I think part of it depends on if you want rewards or low interest (or a prestige card. Out of your list I think I would lean towards the Citi Signature. I'm assuming you're talking about the Hilton HHonors Visa signature at 12.74? But thats because I have enough low rate high limit cards and I'm into rewards cards now. I also think a "Visa Signature" card is pretty cool (Can you say prestige card. Have you checked out the MBNA Elite RPP? It's the best rewards (for me) has the same 12% apr as the HHonors plus No annual fee no rewards fee. If you were going straight up rate the Cap One doesn't sound bad. I don't know much about this card. Also not sure what BofA's offerings are these days. You should post a message to Ron or email him. He's got 1 of every card known to man. He's the one who put me on to the MBNA ERPP. I guess after all this blabbering, It comes back to what you're more interested in: rewards or rate, prestige or don't care. If rewards, what type of rewards. After you pick those, your choices are narrowed down for you. I'm outta here for the weekend. Have a great weekend yourself. Happy Easter
Hey Pat, I'm impressed. First off on Bank One. I saw the exact same thing. No way. The 7.9% looked tempting. Gotta love the fine print. Citi NA. Yep. Got one. High limit. Very happy. HHonors Citi USA. Normally anything over 9.9% isn't even considered, but a no annual free signature card looked worth considering. Need to look at if any of the features are truely worth it to me. Also, have to factor in that the Citi USA web site sucks from what I hear. Online bill payment is a big deal to me and I hear there are some problems with Citi USA's. Do you know if the Signature card reports the same way as the World card discussed in a another thread (wolverine's), no bal report unless over rev. limit? Advantage: Hide more debt simular to Amex LOC. MBNA high limit already. I am very happy with them (Quantum), and I believe I'm probably at their limit for credit limit with my income. Anyways, your answers where right on. Just wanted to make sure there was nothing that maybe I overlooked. And your right, Ron does have one of everything. Happy Easter to your too Pat. Enjoy yourself.
My visa signature card reports 0 credit limit but the entire balance shows up each month. It reports as Open like amex so I'm not sure about the score impact. Note mine is from the dreaded FUSA not citi. BTW, citi seems to have made some changes to online bill payment program. My last two payments, one for me on for wife both posted the day they were made. Up until last week, they used to take 3-5 days to post.
Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear it's from FUSA. When you where talking about citi, where you referring to Citi or Citi USA (citibank.com or citibankusa.com)? I have a Citibank card and the online payment is fine, but I am considering the Signature card from Citi USA, and heard bad things about their site.
I have ONE inquiry with transunion and it lists the "too many inquiries code" as the most important factor in lowering my score, OVER the "age of accounts too short"
Sure. That can make sense. Depends on the age of the inquiry and the age of your credit file. Or, the Trans Union consumer scorecould be a wacked, inaccurate score. NO WAY! That couldn't be possible.
Hey everyone, It's been quite some time since Pat and I did our TU score comparisons. A number of people posted and emailed me saying it was nice to see the comparison. Just wondering if anyone was interested in doing another one. I think I Credit Watch comparison would be nice this time. It would be cool to find someone with a score in the 800s to see what the differences are to push his/her score that high. My score on Credit Watch is currently 763 and had peaked at 786. It's quite time consuming. So if anyone wants to, you have to be willing to take the time and format it just like above. ANY TAKERS??? Pat, how about you?
I wish I had that 800+ EQ score to compare My score on EQ is only 731 right now. Last week when I had a couple of late pays under dispute it was up to 779. It's still interesting though. At 779 the only negative reason I had listed was "You have too many bankcard charge accounts". Now at 731 I have that still as my number 1 reason and I have one other, the number 2 reason is "There is evidence of multiple accounts with missing payments or having derogatory indicators/remarks reported" 2 tradelines, 1 with 12 x 30 (1999,2000 and earlier) day lates and 1 with 2 x 60 (1999) day lates. Both are listed as R1. So those lates are costing me 48 pts. I'm assuming that while they were under dispute, the lates didn't factor into my score. So if I was completely clean, with only 1 inquiry in the last 6 mos, my score would be 779.
My score has crashed from 786 to 746 in a couple of weeks with NO CHANGES whatsoever. So, I'm not doing that well either. Sorry, but I'm leaving town for the rest of the week. I'll definately give a decent response when I return. Thanks for repling Pat. I'll be in touch after the holidays. MERRY CHRISTMAS! (or what ever other holiday you may celebrate)
